http://intj.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#692c9a00-bb96-41b2-b5b8-db7057f49244 My personal opinion is that IQ tests actually more or less measure mental fitness, rather than intelligence, per se. In my experience, those with high IQ's tend to spend much of their time analysing whatever comes across their path. They tend to be very mentally active. love to learn and are constantly challenging themselves mentally, whether it is intentional or not. It's like for instance if you took two adults, one who has always been sports mad and has had a love of physical exercise since they were a toddler, always running, climbing, throwing balls and what not and another person who has always been pretty much a couch potatoe, avoiding exercise at all costs their whole life. anIf you gave them a new sport to learn, one which neither of them have had any practice at I think most of the time you'll find that the person who has always been fitter and had far mor practice learning physical skills will do better at learning a new sport, and will pick it up more quickly. I think it's the same with IQ. Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:04:05 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#692c9a00-bb96-41b2-b5b8-db7057f49244 Peta 2009-11-20T08:04:05Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#bc861735-f74f-4760-8e93-828536067e16 Quite frankly, I could care less about the percentage of an IQ test, or any other test for that matter. I do not believe that our intelligence can be easily measured, and certainly, not by percents that I have not seen. It's the same thing as a grade to me... it's all external. I do not trust that the systems used to calculate it are accurate or fair. The question then becomes "How is intelligence measured?" Can it be? Moreover, is it being compared to an external factor or more internally based? Do we base our decisions off external criterion or internal? I always hated grades in school because the teacher picked out the test questions... what if I learned/memorized information another way? Or what if I didn't find the test questions important or relevant? I didn't care about what the teacher wanted; I cared about what I wanted to learn. Meaning, I did not need to impress the teacher growing up. Unfortunately I did, and I spent a lot of time per se trying to please the teachers, but in retrospect, it was pointless. I now go by my own standards. Tests and percentages mean very little to me. I am highly skeptical. I will say; however, that I do have a very high "intrapersonal" as well as "logical" intelligence. Thu, 19 Nov 2009 02:18:06 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#bc861735-f74f-4760-8e93-828536067e16 Emily A. 2009-11-19T02:18:06Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#4920ea8c-53ca-4b06-81da-7e45b1faa918 I've tested at 139 but I suspect that I'm higher when I'm focused. Freud said that neurosis is a caused by an inability to tolerate ambiguity. I agree--ambiguity has always been the cause of my depression. I think it's because people of lower IQ tend to see things more simply and voice their opinions confidently because of it. We hear them voice these simplistic opinions confidently, and since they are SO confident compared to us (because we're always feeling like failures at our inability to sort out the ambiguity that the world recklessly dishes out to us), we feel that we must be wrong in seeing the ambiguity and don't defend our opinions. this puts us in a state of confusion. we need to use our extraverted intuition when this happens and point out the failures of logic in the people who surround us, who are content to accept opinions that don't make sense, because their logic test is a lot easier to pass than ours is :S Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:27:44 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#4920ea8c-53ca-4b06-81da-7e45b1faa918 Zachary 2009-11-19T01:27:44Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#365051e3-4717-4bbb-a641-19912ff9e4f2 Wow, had to join this tribe. Well first off, I am a definite INTJ. Took the test in school and recently, both with the same answer. I was always known in school as someone with above average intelligence. However, never seen as someone with outstanding intelligence like that of a mensa. I have taken several tests over my lifespan and have come to the conclusion that I think I range from 125 to 135. One website called me a "Visionary Philosopher". After reading all the comments above I feel like I want to respond to all of you with huge paragraphs so instead I'll just say: - Typical INTJ thread. Everyone is philosophising over their own intelligence and numerous complex subjects sprout up from anywhere. It's night time here in London and I'm knackered. Will sleep for now........... Sat, 24 Oct 2009 21:39:05 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#365051e3-4717-4bbb-a641-19912ff9e4f2 Ian 2009-10-24T21:39:05Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#0ed99c4b-7c4b-4bb2-a953-a4e296780cea 147 Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:27:40 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#0ed99c4b-7c4b-4bb2-a953-a4e296780cea SUPER☾ALI 2009-09-29T23:27:40Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#1320da1f-da07-4b82-8fb0-d3c5fd686e7f I've taken two IQ tests. On one, I scored 127 and on the other one I scored 135. Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:52:13 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#1320da1f-da07-4b82-8fb0-d3c5fd686e7f Peta 2009-09-28T13:52:13Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#e9aaac7f-6237-4e35-8203-721025bde7f8 ranging from 120 to 148..varied across the various online tests. i do think that IQ tests are useless in most cases as they dont really measure all aspects of intelligence and also for 98% people it is more of a realization that they are not "highly intelligent"(questionable statement) while it is an ego trip for the other 2%. Mon, 04 May 2009 20:03:49 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#e9aaac7f-6237-4e35-8203-721025bde7f8 mkgfan_intj 2009-05-04T20:03:49Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#5405f02e-524a-439d-b406-689ffe5c4b90 Mine is 92! (YES!!! Um... wait...o_O ) Thu, 26 Mar 2009 23:25:03 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#5405f02e-524a-439d-b406-689ffe5c4b90 Wyatt 2009-03-26T23:25:03Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#1b13dbc5-e1ea-4131-bdc0-374539f5d0a6 My IQ was 129 in a test I done years ago. Mon, 23 Mar 2009 15:50:06 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#1b13dbc5-e1ea-4131-bdc0-374539f5d0a6 Dion 2009-03-23T15:50:06Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#b87bb7ff-4370-47d2-a1be-725741a3262e My iq on an online test was 128, i dont honestly think i could actually get a "Real" IQ test. If i could i would, but really all i can say is that i am different from my fellow classmates in the way i think, act and feel. I have a mild case of OCD and a moderate case of SAD (i believe almost everyone does.) But the true kicker is my beliefs. I am a secular humanist. I see all the abrahmic religions passed around in my class and i dont see how people can just believe...is it just me?.... Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:13:17 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#b87bb7ff-4370-47d2-a1be-725741a3262e daniel 2008-12-03T17:13:17Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#0b1fbc87-38fb-4c1a-ad62-6a3800f8d413 An online test gave me a 140 something IQ. I'm pretty sure my IQ was at least 20 points lower when my children were younger. Mon, 01 Dec 2008 10:51:14 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#0b1fbc87-38fb-4c1a-ad62-6a3800f8d413 Flea 2008-12-01T10:51:14Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#764468a1-d0f2-4ed1-be8e-a8ec5d61696f That's a very good point and this is a great thread. If anyone is interested, I've put together a set of resources about iq tests with links to some of the better tests on the internet. iqtesttraining.com/whichiqtest.htm Sat, 12 Jul 2008 21:35:51 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#764468a1-d0f2-4ed1-be8e-a8ec5d61696f martin 2008-07-12T21:35:51Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#e055f1e3-1ecb-4c49-bae6-beda7bdcad7e The internet tests only go up to about 145 or whatever - so if you get all the questions right, your iq on their scale could be anything upwards of that. Some do claim to draw their iq number from a normal distribution. However, the questions seem really easy, so the tests might not be anything to take seriously. There are some serious ones, however, at websites like mensa. Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:27:26 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#e055f1e3-1ecb-4c49-bae6-beda7bdcad7e Zoranja 2008-07-12T13:27:26Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#404a4662-62a6-4ef5-be4a-65e4a60ce21c My IQ tests have ranged anywhere from 135 to 144. Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:33:04 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#404a4662-62a6-4ef5-be4a-65e4a60ce21c Diane 2007-12-15T17:33:04Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#35053262-1843-4cad-a1a1-6b0770aab50b Actually, IQ tests tend to favor intuition, not thinking. surprise! Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:33:20 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#35053262-1843-4cad-a1a1-6b0770aab50b Vicky Jo 2007-12-01T16:33:20Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#c95e11fb-0575-48dc-a4f3-6774a7644341 When I was younger, my parents got me an official test that cost a heck of a lot of money that they somehow got for free. They gave you a range as your "score", I was 130-140. But alas I find IQ stupid. Come on, how do you measure intelligence. Its not something that can be measured. Unless perhaps you get an extremely high/low score. Then it impacts. Instead all it does is make people think this is their intelligence and gives them a mentality of so-and-so is better because they have a higher IQ- no they are not. IQ tests are also often more on thinking styles. They are certainly favorable towards NT's. Sat, 01 Dec 2007 03:15:10 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#c95e11fb-0575-48dc-a4f3-6774a7644341 Sarah 2007-12-01T03:15:10Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#7902337d-0238-4ef6-88d1-a88b1d99461c I notice this thread contains some misconceptions about IQ. For those of you who might be interested, earlies this year I put together a blog entry that is a recommended reading list of articles about IQ that are available on the Web. Most of the articles were written by experts in psychometrics or related fields. http://cedricmorrison.blogspot.com/2007/01/iq-primer.html Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:04:26 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#7902337d-0238-4ef6-88d1-a88b1d99461c Bill 2007-06-16T01:04:26Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#853f641f-30a1-4c67-93c5-36a3c9ac045a I think the IQ is actually a better fit below 16, because the tests automatically assume we stop growing mentally at 16, and use that for the denominator, which isn't really true if say you go to graduate school. 4 points is not likely significant, one flubbed/answered question, or a different question. Of course, the main thing is what you do with it, and after school, your track record and resume is more important. Except, alas, that the world is run by C students (or "gentlemen's C" (F for the rest of us) in the case of W) Fri, 15 Jun 2007 15:39:31 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#853f641f-30a1-4c67-93c5-36a3c9ac045a Artwit 2007-06-15T15:39:31Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#e526adb7-b67a-45ee-b588-5135c6397e51 I totally agree. Mon, 11 Jun 2007 05:46:05 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#e526adb7-b67a-45ee-b588-5135c6397e51 H. Jane 2007-06-11T05:46:05Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#caa2f03f-fbb6-4a53-98a0-ae48f0633617 Eh, mine was 138 in the eighth grade... I'm going to be a sophomore in high school in August and my results were 142 on the same test but... it was also stated in my results that since I'm not 16 yet my IQ might be lower than it actually is... Eh, lemme find it... for my peace of mind... "The intelligence quotient (IQ) measures the ratio of a person's intellectual age to his/her chronological age. Most adult intelligence tests are designed for people who are at least 16 years old. For this reason, if you are younger than 16, your Tickle IQ score might be slightly lower than your "true" IQ. " And I'm only a year younger than that... but it's still gotta count for something, right? Yeah, so anyways. I know that most of you said you took an online IQ test but where site did you go to? Mon, 11 Jun 2007 05:38:59 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#caa2f03f-fbb6-4a53-98a0-ae48f0633617 H. Jane 2007-06-11T05:38:59Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#00693cd1-c20d-445c-ae8a-405891dd56d6 A lot of people have posted that they are members or are eligible for membership in Mensa. I was curious so I looked at their website and the admission tests fee is 30.00, and "prior evidence" ie other tests require 25.00. The fee for membership per year is 49.00. Luckily you get a deal on family membership! Maybe the money goes toward holding the meetings in nice places or summer camp -- I wouldn't know. Possibly an embroidered sweat shirt with your name and IQ? Perhaps I'm just jealous ... ;) Although I think I will take them up on their offer and send away for their free brochure. Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:45:07 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#00693cd1-c20d-445c-ae8a-405891dd56d6 KC 2007-04-29T21:45:07Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#30e51b39-e057-43f7-9081-759c276afadf Some questions the facts posted by Bill bring up: 1) Am I mistaken in thinking the London Board of Education is the London School Board (1870-early 1900's)? 2) It has been proven that IQ is difficult to determine in children and the score can fluctuate considerably. This fluctuation is nearly eliminated when standardized IQ test are given to adults. 3 and 4) Maybe IQ is affecting enrollment? 5) I vaguely remember reading something recently that said there was a slight affect on IQ due to birth order. I can not say with certainty though. Help? 6) One thing I've questioned about the IQ and breast feeding is whether it is more than just the superior nutrition of the breast milk vs. formula but the physical contact between mother and child as well. 7) Perhaps it also corresponds to the work year and the times of year that are busy? I'm going to make a leap here and say that the IQ of working mothers may be higher than non-working. So is it possible that this may be affecting the IQ of the school children? 8) 20 points is really an inflated number. Although IQ is rising with every generation. Some of the suggestions as to why this is occurring are: better prenatal care and nutrition, people are overall healthier (in the sense that we are not fighting parasites,) etc. I think this called the Flynn effect (sp?)This is getting long so I'll stop there. 9) It isn't an issue of head size. If I do recall correctly East Asians have pretty high IQs and their heads are not huge. I have heard an argument for brain density that makes sense to me. 10) Possibly. 11) Evens out yes. But the difference between IQ also becomes more clearly defined because there is less fluctuation of test score. People tend to have higher IQ results as children than they do as adults. 12) Possibly. I think performance on tests can be affected by diet. I sort of a have a ritual of eating omega-3 rich foods leading up to a test and eating a super simple carbohydrate and coffee prior to test. I find when I do this my performance increases -- but my IQ? By the way my IQ is around 115. Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:31:14 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#30e51b39-e057-43f7-9081-759c276afadf KC 2007-04-29T21:31:14Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#023f459d-1e84-42bd-9bc2-50c33140b336 right - a's and b's are far too expensive.... Sat, 07 Apr 2007 03:19:36 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#023f459d-1e84-42bd-9bc2-50c33140b336 r'ox 2007-04-07T03:19:36Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#8c91ff29-9c95-4114-93f8-b0b5d2220292 Yes with a C+ average I think. Fri, 06 Apr 2007 01:50:36 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#8c91ff29-9c95-4114-93f8-b0b5d2220292 $item.owner.firstName 2007-04-06T01:50:36Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#a9caf8d4-ec47-4084-9f6d-ae60ade596c1 I took one online IQ test and scored 163. I took the American mirror of the European IQ test (again online) and scored 148, but I was tired at time :) . I was a member of Mensa and someday hope to return it, maybe. I actually had my opinion published in one issue the magazine American Mensa puts out. I am an INTJ. Most everything is a shade of gray. Depression has been a malady of mine from time to time. One question on a game show was --Which would you rather be an idiot or a moron? The correct or expected answer was moron because a moron had a higher IQ. The following is a quote from http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/midiot.htm . "On a side note, although "idiot" is a nonspecific insult today, not long ago it had a precise technical meaning. In the early years of IQ tests, an idiot was someone with an IQ of 0-25, an imbecile had an IQ of 26-50, and a moron had an IQ of 51-70." I knew the expected answer but I thought it might be better to be too dumb to know you are dumb. So, idiot may have been the better answer. We do not have to worry about that but our intelligence often times lead to depression. Fri, 06 Apr 2007 01:32:52 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#a9caf8d4-ec47-4084-9f6d-ae60ade596c1 $item.owner.firstName 2007-04-06T01:32:52Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#8c362840-c3a0-48cd-88cf-d80d8cded067 Unfortunately, politics in the U.S. at least, is conducted at the level of baser emotions, and played to people who resent the smarties as school who got the good grades and the good jobs. Hence the appeal of guys like W and the un-appeal of folks like Hillary (she's smarter than you and a WOMAN besides!) The high-IQ sharks around him are willing to engage in emotional manipulation to sieze power, and we see the result. There is little like this among intellectuals on the left, who don't like these antidemocratic methods. If you're opposed in principle to what Karl Rove does, lying, cheating, smearing, it's difficult to beat them at their own game. Pelosi's "strong mother" is perhaps our best shot, but Hillary can't be reminted in that mold. Interestingly in the www.kingdomality.com game, where the M-B types play out in a medieval society, the INTJ get to be the benevolent ruler (#2 in power) but not the #1 prime minister. Tue, 27 Mar 2007 14:46:05 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#8c362840-c3a0-48cd-88cf-d80d8cded067 Artwit 2007-03-27T14:46:05Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#d0882d43-df60-4921-b0b3-fbc8fad5b278 FYI: I took the SAT before it was made on 1600 for fun (as I'm Canadian) and scored a 1260. This correlates to roughly the 85th percentile. This would be in the Winter of 2004. I took the Mensa test in the Winter of 2007 (this year) and passed it, which means my IQ is in the 98th percentile or better. I strongly doubt that you could correlate SAT and IQ. Further, the fact that Bush went to Yale is irrelevant, as mentioned, it's his pedigree that allowed him in, and being a C student, again as mentioned, there's really nothing exotic to speak of. That being said, I think it's pretty obvious that Bush needs to be brighter then 100, simply by virtue of what he has been able to accomplish. Regardless of what you might think of him, and myself being an INTJ Liberal Atheist, not very much, you must still come to terms with the fact a person with an 85 IQ would not score C's in any university, let alone Yale. I would agree with the assertion his IQ is around 120, or even 115, but below this is extremely unlikely in my mind. Just my $0.02. :) Mon, 26 Mar 2007 08:07:34 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#d0882d43-df60-4921-b0b3-fbc8fad5b278 Matthew 2007-03-26T08:07:34Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#ad3236db-ee11-4889-880e-e5e129896a68 I've taken way more IQ tests than is probably healthy, and I consistently just squeek into the top 2% each time (and I am a Mensa member, although I'm probably a couple years tardy on my dues at this point...) Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:28:15 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#ad3236db-ee11-4889-880e-e5e129896a68 Andrew 2007-03-23T16:28:15Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#31868629-8a26-46f1-8ab2-23ef10e4d4d2 My IQ is in the 130s. Anyways, I'm in the International High IQ Society, and in their forum, there was a poll to see which type we all were. Now, I believe that INTJs make up only 2-5% of the world... HOWEVER, 26% of the voters in that poll said they were ISTJs, by far the highest type voted. Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:45:44 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#31868629-8a26-46f1-8ab2-23ef10e4d4d2 Mon 2007-03-23T15:45:44Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#0e51a54f-a0b7-4058-8598-a9c47e41a6bd I've never taken a formal IQ test, but I can guess my IQ isn't very high. Maybe 115 or so. Since genetics supposedly has a role in IQ, that would account for my not so high IQ. I'm "studiously inclined," however, like to learn, and usually like school. I'm currently working on a master's degree and am hoping to go on for a PhD afterwards.... Not in the most rigorous field though. Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:57:23 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#0e51a54f-a0b7-4058-8598-a9c47e41a6bd Emily 2006-11-22T21:57:23Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#242de2ba-47b5-4952-b1fe-ddef78a7ffed You think we could make IQ more of an issue in elections? How would we accomplish this? I happen to think figuring out how proteins work and curing aging, cancer, etc. is rather important. But we could also use some smart people in power so as to remain free to do this stuff. One thing to take into consideration is that the dual of the INTJ critic is the ESFP politician. Perhaps the smart people in power are actually there, but tend to remain behind the scenes, as the friends or spouses of the more averagely intelligent leaders that have enough charisma to get (and stay) elected. Sat, 18 Nov 2006 16:24:13 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#242de2ba-47b5-4952-b1fe-ddef78a7ffed Luke 2006-11-18T16:24:13Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#046342c2-8a97-44a2-93c0-a361a91d8f78 I think that a look at historical geniuses will support Gardner's multiple intelligences more so than Jensen's single g-factor theory. Most people, psychometricians included, would probably agree that Bronte, Mozart and Einstein are utterly non-interchangeable, regardless of their nurture and upbringing. If 50 people pissed in the swimming pool, you can't determine that by just looking at the color of the water. Mon, 23 Oct 2006 06:12:15 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#046342c2-8a97-44a2-93c0-a361a91d8f78 Dee-Pong 2006-10-23T06:12:15Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#95d24245-19a8-43ee-85e7-bb5a0f511898 I think that that the test you took in 6th grade was based on a standard dev of 15. Some of the Mensa tests have a standard dev of 24. If you compare your two scores, the number of standard deviations from 100 are almost identical. (167-100)/24 versus (142-100)/15. For IQ's in your range, you might try Ron Hoeflin's high range tests like the Titan Test and the Ultra Test. You might find that your true IQ is 10-15 points higher. The tests that schools typically give aren't really designed to be accurate in the 135+ range. Mon, 23 Oct 2006 06:01:29 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#95d24245-19a8-43ee-85e7-bb5a0f511898 Dee-Pong 2006-10-23T06:01:29Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#244dd1a0-753b-468b-b222-87801bf93959 It's fairly high( joined Mensa years ago.) I would like to comment on the black/white issue. I disagree with your statement "I find that people with high IQs don't see things in black-and-white or good-and-bad". IMHO, perceiving things in black/white, yes/no, right/wrong, etc.. is tends to lean somewhat more towards the perspective of a personality disorder rather than a function of intelligence. Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:16:11 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#244dd1a0-753b-468b-b222-87801bf93959 Art 2006-10-17T19:16:11Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#36b5fad8-3acd-4c8a-b5c4-d13b7b55da6b Has anyone read the psychology book Annual Editions? 'tis very interesting and in this case lends some interesting info on this topic. I was reading one article entitled "Intelligence: the surprising truth," which outlines a few surprising and not-so-surprising facts about intelligence. (the article was written by Stephen Cecil, Phd.) (by the way, remember the difference between correlation [which almost all of these are] and causation before we start arguing) Fact 1: IQ is affected by school attendance. Early evidence from the last century London Board of education showed that the IQ of children in the same family decreased from the youngest to the oldest. The youngest group-- ages 4 to 6-- had an average of 90, while the oldest children-- 12 to 22-- had an average of only 60. The older children progressively missed more school, and their IQs were lower as a result. Fact 2: IQ is affected by summer vacations Fact 3: IQ is affected by delayed schooling Fact 4: IQ is affected by remaining is school longer Fact 5: IQ is not influenced by birth order Fact 6: IQ is related to breast feeding (researchers were not sure why when this article was published, although 3 to 8 IQ points are added to those who were breast-fed) Fact 7: IQ varies by birth date (usually correlated with the dates of enrolment in school) Fact 8: IQ has risen about 20 points with every generation Fact 9: IQ is correlated with head size (HOLD ON! So many people have tried to argue with me on this one, but REAL researchers have found a CORRELATION between HEAD SIZE and IQ [Cranial Volume]. Hold on those with small heads, because the correlation is quite small.) Fact 10: IQ is context-dependent Fact 11: IQ evens out with age Fact 12: IQ may be influenced by cafeteria menu (preservatives, dyes, and artificial flavors may decrease IQ by up to 14%) OK, I am not sure where to find this article but I havent really looked on the web so I am sure it is out there for those who are interested in further investigation. (After the providing evidence for the first fact, I got lazy; I also realize some of them may seem redundant but that is the way they were structured in the article) Tue, 10 Oct 2006 03:46:50 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#36b5fad8-3acd-4c8a-b5c4-d13b7b55da6b Bill 2006-10-10T03:46:50Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#76602025-adbc-4204-ad05-fc643cf213eb <-- 342 IQ Sun, 01 Oct 2006 12:32:39 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#76602025-adbc-4204-ad05-fc643cf213eb Boisenberg 2006-10-01T12:32:39Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#eaa2ba3d-3b6b-4d62-867e-11f7cdf0e578 Somewhere between 100 and 200...hopefully. Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:07:20 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#eaa2ba3d-3b6b-4d62-867e-11f7cdf0e578 Emily 2006-09-23T17:07:20Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#212fc437-68e4-431a-b679-9b2aa31b1e38 IQ is certainly no guarentee for anything (other than possessing the ability to think/reason quickly and on multiple levels). I agree with the poster that it seems to be more of an ego driven trait for the majority of people with high IQs. The true geniuses know what to do with it. Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:21:40 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#212fc437-68e4-431a-b679-9b2aa31b1e38 Dave 2006-07-05T20:21:40Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#08e896dc-1cea-41ac-a3ef-eae569907b86 Which brings me to another important point, why is it that most really intelligent people don't do a thing? Sure, INTPs & co by definition don't care to put plans into action and all that crap, but, in the end we are human right? We could make it through a frigging ice age, what will it take for us to have the bit of discipline required to do our role in society? I am not talking about sitting in a research lab and doing mental fellatio trying to unfold proteins, but about using our higher IQ to dethrone those neonazi figures in the white house and other ridiculous power structures, and make it so that suddenly smart people decide where to put the money, what to show on TV, what to teach in school and so forth. Imagine the impact of that. Mon, 15 May 2006 18:52:28 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#08e896dc-1cea-41ac-a3ef-eae569907b86 $item.owner.firstName 2006-05-15T18:52:28Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#88b75712-5ff8-4ec0-b18e-05b171e09c12 Probably 174, but I'm not sure. I remember I once tried to take the high iq society test for exceptional intelligence, since it's designed for very smart people it's said it can assess IQ up to 200+. I solved all the problems except one, and that pissed me off so I never bothered to submit and get the results. After 2 weeks I was breaking my head on that silly problem with colored balls, mapping them on hypercubes, creating software simulations of rubik manifolds and crap, I realized, someone needs to be very, very stupid to waste his brain on such things, AND, also pretty immature to put so much effort into yet another perhaps unscientific numerical ego-booster. There are things out there that DEMAND our attention. Curing aging, for example. Better to have one 100-IQ researcher figuring out how ALT works than a hundred 180 IQ geniuses trying to figure out if that ball problem has a mistake in it or what. Mon, 15 May 2006 18:46:13 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#88b75712-5ff8-4ec0-b18e-05b171e09c12 $item.owner.firstName 2006-05-15T18:46:13Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#930a98d6-7a92-4283-8c38-b9d6af23d0b4 The first IQ test, Binet, was made up to predict success or failure within the French school system. They actually succeeded in those goals, but then the Amerikanski like Terman (sp?) at Stanford, expanded the domain of application. Certainly intelligence is multifacted, and other traits like emotional competence (called intelligence by some, though that may be posturing for respectability, though EQ is a misnomer since there is no quotient) are predictors of success in domains like business, which rely more on interpersonal interaction rather than facts & data. There's a pretty good correlation between IQ and sucess in abstract fields like math and theoretical science, which don't require much human interaction (note that prodigies are almost in non-worldly subjects like music or math). Even borderline Asperger syndrome can work to the advantage of a theorist. That's me, strong in science, not very good at schmoozability, not a politician, sucessfully avoided management. Sat, 06 May 2006 15:48:27 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#930a98d6-7a92-4283-8c38-b9d6af23d0b4 Artwit 2006-05-06T15:48:27Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#9dcdb832-5843-40c4-bd91-5fa8bb88f668 I am new to the board and was interested in your (and others' responses). Iam an INTJ (just got back results from a "real" MBTI today 100% for I-N-T-and J...scary.) Anyway, being an INTJ and reading your question about IQ ..I thought "why does it matter?" "Who ever really defined 'intelligience" anyway. " "Do these tests even work?" ha ha typical intj response! Many agree that most IQ tests really measure, for the most part, what a person has learned, not really his potential. Some people may not be able to memorize or have much vocabulary, but paint brilliantly. Some may understand people very well, and may learn to cheat through school and life and become finacially successful. Some may be great mathematicians, but cant communicate at all with their peers, spouse or children. Which is more intelligent? Is a single score that important to us..to peg us all by a number? I think Gardner may be on a more correct path with the multiple intelligences theory. Many greats have average IQs by standard measure, but possess much curiousity and persistence that leads them to great discoveries (e.g. Thomas Edison). I do think that some standard testing measures may favor certain personalities - intj being one of them. While those who are very good at interpersonal skills, may balk at the seemingly standoffishness of the tester and may not respond as well without that back and forth conversational banter....but whom may totally rock later in life as litigators and bargainers, for example. I just hope we recognize people (espeically children) for greatness and creativity outside the standard "IQ" box. I wouldn't want a world of only intjs, or only great spacial understanding, or... you get the idea. I think intj's especially can think outside the box when it comes to IQ and value all the different types talents that the world needs. Geez...I am really not that philosophical, but wanted to add another flavor to the discussion. Fri, 05 May 2006 21:42:17 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#9dcdb832-5843-40c4-bd91-5fa8bb88f668 C.Ritz 2006-05-05T21:42:17Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#414d4b5a-7f53-433d-addf-e7f8c70aa50d I started at USF (Univ. of South Florida) while I lived there (oh so briefly - FL was _not_ for me) and am continuing at UConn (Univ. of COnnecticut). Sat, 08 Apr 2006 16:49:32 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#414d4b5a-7f53-433d-addf-e7f8c70aa50d Stark 2006-04-08T16:49:32Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#31216272-d26a-4221-865c-6cc0071efec6 The last time I got tested, it was 168. But that was an old test. Something called the Flynn Effect says discount by approximately 10 points at the time I was taking that test, to allow for increasing general knowledge / intelligence. But I'm curious, Stark, as to where they have a Masters program in gifted ed. I'm an engineer by original training, laid off by Ford, and can't find a job in my specialty that doesn't require 70 hour weeks and lots of travel. But I have kids, and a spouse with a 70 hour-a-week, lots of travel job. The only profession I've seen with hours that even vaguely allow for family life is education. Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:42:06 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#31216272-d26a-4221-865c-6cc0071efec6 $item.owner.firstName 2006-02-22T17:42:06Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#9e772bf2-fb2f-4620-9adb-87c79f558afe I got 123...while I was stoned! :) Mon, 20 Feb 2006 01:47:40 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#9e772bf2-fb2f-4620-9adb-87c79f558afe Jef 2006-02-20T01:47:40Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#5dfdebd3-ac7c-49fb-a1f3-c184718dc593 I'm sure bush cheatedf on SAT's as he has done in every other facet of his life. His family got him through yale. Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:26:17 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#5dfdebd3-ac7c-49fb-a1f3-c184718dc593 Artwit 2006-02-19T15:26:17Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#05e1d274-18f2-435b-ac5b-87eb0f6b35eb W is very good at playing the "oh stupid me" game, and if he's made the occasional verbal mistake, well haven't we all... as for mine - I was a child prodigy - reading Mao and other philosophers in grade school until the head injury...now I think I'm just above average... Sun, 19 Feb 2006 07:57:12 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#05e1d274-18f2-435b-ac5b-87eb0f6b35eb $item.owner.firstName 2006-02-19T07:57:12Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#54fea96c-b9b5-41ac-bcdd-043808f74a85 ... is what you get in the Ivy League if you come from a wealthy family, and do no work whatsoever. We had them at Princeton and they really were dumb shits like W. Sat, 30 Jul 2005 06:28:18 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#54fea96c-b9b5-41ac-bcdd-043808f74a85 Artwit 2005-07-30T06:28:18Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#51ce1ea1-ade5-4d9f-a78a-9713f63ab58f Sorry, but the data on the SAT have been misinterpreted. Perhaps those are the percentiles for those who take the test in _seventh_ grade as part of several national "talent searches." However, a check of the website you cite shows that they got their data from this website: http://www.collegeboard.com/sat/cbsenior/equiv/rt027027.html It does not make any correlation between SAT score and IQ; it only correlates "old" SAT scores to "recentered" ones. So let's look at Bush Jr.'s score of 1206: 1. Let's round it up to 1210 so we can use the table. 2. An "old" 1210 is approx. equal to a "recentered" 1280 according to the above College Board website. 3. Also according to the College Board, a 1280 is the 88th percentile. To get to the 97th, one would have to score a 1420. (Percentile data are for 2004-2005 tests and were obtained from http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2003/pdf/table_3b.pdf) 4. _If_ one accepts the faulty premise that SAT scores correlate in any way with IQ (vs. socioeconomic status, level of test preparation, quality of H.S. courses, etc.), then the 88th percentile of IQ would be approximately a 119 (conversions at http://members.shaw.ca/delajara/IQtable.html among other sites). This comes out in the "High Average" range. 5. Graduating Yale, and many other Ivy-League caliber colleges, is not nearly as difficult as _getting in_ to Yale. Bush was a C student at Yale, which is pretty bad. As for how he got in, one can conclude that legacy preferences undoubtedly had something to do with it. Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:32:25 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#51ce1ea1-ade5-4d9f-a78a-9713f63ab58f Stark 2005-07-19T18:32:25Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#fa63cfad-909c-4d73-a93a-6ffaa7202d65 Thank you Francesca for posting this. It puts many things in perspective. Also remember Older SATs were not as watered down. Having spent the several (fruitless) summers tutoring people at the IQ 85 level. (Mildly Impaired by Fetal Alcohol Syndrome) I can certainly say GWB doesn't operate at that level. If you detractors really want to say he is stupider than most Americans an IQ of 95 would be more than appropiate. There is also plenty of evidence he is 97-98 %tile. (SAT, academic acheivement etc.) The use of hyperbole here is just going to make you lose creditability. Thu, 07 Jul 2005 06:24:15 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#fa63cfad-909c-4d73-a93a-6ffaa7202d65 Litestorm 2005-07-07T06:24:15Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#c32999c2-9dbc-4d17-a4f3-6f43c3a2f643 Just for the record: An IQ score of 85 is at the 16th percentile. An SAT (old-style test) score of 1220 is at the 97.8 percentile, and a score of 1190 is at the 97.0 percentile. Although Bush's IQ score is not available, he scored 1206 on his SAT. And he graduated Yale. FWIW, here's the chart of correlations of IQ and other tests I took some stats from: http://www.webenet.com/iq.htm (Scroll down to see it.) Wed, 06 Jul 2005 15:56:41 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#c32999c2-9dbc-4d17-a4f3-6f43c3a2f643 Francesca 2005-07-06T15:56:41Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#26bdd9b1-dee7-49f3-985b-6820323f86b3 I do believe the 85 too, if at all. To divide the world in good (who follow his decisions) and evil (the others) is something that puts him even below 85 - a very dangerous mixture of power and an IQ below average Without even listening to him - just looking into his eyes, his smile ... my heart tells me: a dangerous stupid man - and I learned to trust my heart (http://thewaytoyourheart.tribe.net/) To the original question: Even though I got wiser over the years it seems I have lost some IQ points ... when I studied maths (25 years ago) I got 150 in a real test - now in an online test just 142 remained ... Wed, 06 Jul 2005 12:22:53 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#26bdd9b1-dee7-49f3-985b-6820323f86b3 Andre 2005-07-06T12:22:53Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#17d466af-3051-4d4a-8a64-67d23dd2a838 Shalom Stark, i wasn't intending to climb on this thread . . . until i read your post . . . well said ! thanks peace dk Wed, 06 Jul 2005 01:31:06 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#17d466af-3051-4d4a-8a64-67d23dd2a838 $item.owner.firstName 2005-07-06T01:31:06Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#70ebbd2d-6181-4b39-947e-cae93f93fa10 hmm, now you've got me thinking. i remember seeing the figure 142 written in ink on a letter sent to my parents in 6th grade. maybe that was the minimum "score" to get to go to the gifted class, but then why was it written in ink. the 167 was from a test given by Mensa in 11th or 12th grade. but that's all i know about it. i dont even have the papers any longer. so sorry i can't be of more help. Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:52:15 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#70ebbd2d-6181-4b39-947e-cae93f93fa10 Gianna 2005-07-05T23:52:15Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#c8d65ca3-ee08-4981-886d-6fbec4c7ad4e I don't know what my IQ is either, but I am one of those folks who has trouble seeing some things in black-and-white...I think it has something to do with being a "big picture" thinker. Like usually trying to find yet another perspective on even "simple" issues. Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:12:35 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#c8d65ca3-ee08-4981-886d-6fbec4c7ad4e $item.owner.firstName 2005-07-05T23:12:35Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#09fcbdcd-ebd7-4ed9-9890-835d75062af3 "When I talk to certain people, I can feel it dropping." Thats funny. A friend of mine used to call them "Brain-drainers". Tue, 05 Jul 2005 23:04:49 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#09fcbdcd-ebd7-4ed9-9890-835d75062af3 $item.owner.firstName 2005-07-05T23:04:49Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#d8150d85-21df-4b02-8aa1-f4a6797fbb05 That's quite a jump. Did they use a different measure the second time around? (Curious because I'm working on my Masters in Gifted Ed. and we have discussed numerous instruments that purport to measure IQ...) Mon, 04 Jul 2005 20:28:02 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#d8150d85-21df-4b02-8aa1-f4a6797fbb05 Stark 2005-07-04T20:28:02Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#63bc4dfc-ebaa-4186-8822-10358d9785de it's different each time. In 6th grad 142 and in 11th grad 167. but my mind seems to work even faster now that there is the world wide web. Sat, 11 Jun 2005 04:33:03 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#63bc4dfc-ebaa-4186-8822-10358d9785de Gianna 2005-06-11T04:33:03Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#8c28e19f-7f3c-4afd-9264-d04d753dc2fc I was around 138 years ago, but I think I've lost several points. When I talk to certain people, I can feel it dropping. Tue, 07 Jun 2005 05:30:22 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#8c28e19f-7f3c-4afd-9264-d04d753dc2fc minimo 2005-06-07T05:30:22Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#7b4de4cb-cc78-48a9-9eff-c5927d6bd596 Indeed, seems "W"(ech) is a simple reflection of the average man. That helped him get elected thereby making it possible for his "Handlers" to stay in power and run amok. There has got to be an INTJ in there somewhere and they are using their powers for evil. Fri, 05 Nov 2004 04:51:05 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#7b4de4cb-cc78-48a9-9eff-c5927d6bd596 Matt 2004-11-05T04:51:05Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#9c9e6fd2-10a1-44e3-97af-62049b13416a I had heard, and can believe, 85. His smarts are of the "animal cunning" variety. I doubt if he has ever read a book. He appears to lack completely lack any power of reflection on his actions. The cloud of Straussian fascists who handle him -- the Project for a New American Century -- Kristol, Rumsfeld, Perle &c -- that's another matter -- many are bright and exceedingly dangerous. Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:31:30 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#9c9e6fd2-10a1-44e3-97af-62049b13416a Artwit 2004-09-10T21:31:30Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#dd8ca1d2-1d99-4e50-ad1b-808795f63f6e Wow, a 200+ IQ??? Seriously, I think Bush is about average. Not that I want someone who's just _average_ running the country, but I doubt he's lower than 90. His Verbal is probably down there. However, full-scale is probably in the Above Average range OR he's doing a damn good job of playing the "me so stupid" game. Tue, 07 Sep 2004 22:35:39 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#dd8ca1d2-1d99-4e50-ad1b-808795f63f6e Stark 2004-09-07T22:35:39Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#c797bc9e-6857-4d5a-9f09-9b2a51e2ec84 Yeah. What he said! Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:11:12 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#c797bc9e-6857-4d5a-9f09-9b2a51e2ec84 $item.owner.firstName 2004-08-29T23:11:12Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#8c923932-2e87-40bd-8583-248e373dcf0e I think what Big is referring to is the test's "ceiling." For example, many children who are IQ-tested are tested using a test called the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC). However, this test was designed to be used for 95% of the population. After you get more than 2 standard deviations away from the mean, the test loses effectiveness in measuring IQ. So, for example, if you tested three kids on the WISC, and they got IQ scores of 140, 142, and 144, you might conclude that they are all intellectual peers. However, if you then administered a test such as the Stanford-Binet (Form L-M), which is specifically designed to discriminate at high IQ levels (and is also useful to discriminate at the lower end of the bell curve as well), then you might find that your 142 is now a 141, your 144 is a 155, and your 140 is now a 170. These children are now very different. A person with a 170 IQ is as different from someone with a 140 as a 140 is from a 110. Another thing to be wary of is the self-selecting sample. In a group called "INTJ Personalities," you are more likely to find people who are interested in themselves, in what personality is, and who take measures such as the Myers-Briggs to determine their personality type. In other words, you are probably more likely to find those who are above-average in intelligence here, compared to the general population. Whether or not INTJ's are "smarter" than ENFP's or ISTJ's is something else, and would require not only the taking of IQ data from those groups, but also the administering of the M-B to a wide population sample, not just those who seek it out. Sun, 29 Aug 2004 18:36:22 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#8c923932-2e87-40bd-8583-248e373dcf0e Stark 2004-08-29T18:36:22Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#f260ab93-e3d7-4e53-a2b9-2974c3e7d437 Really? That's surprising. Got a reference on that? Any psychological test, to be considered valid, would surely scale raw scores against a standard distribution. Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:02:17 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#f260ab93-e3d7-4e53-a2b9-2974c3e7d437 Francesca 2004-08-24T18:02:17Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#8706d184-9616-4fbc-811b-2a81bc8c6eaf Sad to say, it is about twice that of the current occupant of the White House... And people are not seening through the media, smoke, and mirrors Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:21:49 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#8706d184-9616-4fbc-811b-2a81bc8c6eaf Artwit 2004-08-24T13:21:49Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#fc80ff7e-4104-4f8e-8053-28baafb64af2 Hmmm ... didn't praise W. for outfoxing. Just noticed that he did. I don't really care or have much emotion about whether he does or doesn't. My point is just that he is probably more logical-symbolic-analytical-linear smart than many of us tribe.net/alternative types give him credit for, and his track record shows it. Again - when people say "he's a moron", I think that it's his heart that is underdeveloped, and not his brain. But ... whatever. I hate arguing politics. I think that our political points of view, and what we see happening out in the world, have mostly to do with out own personal fears and desires. That's what is more interesting to me to talk about. And yes I am sure that I see many things in blacks and whites, probably all sorts of things I am not even aware of seeing as such. Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:52:57 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#fc80ff7e-4104-4f8e-8053-28baafb64af2 Adam 2004-07-15T22:52:57Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#f4c6fe90-6ba6-40ca-9192-f8163a62ee38 Tests do vary. For a true picture, I think it's best to take several and then find a range that most of them fall within. [note: since it's supposed to be based on a bell curve, the higher the scores are, the bigger the range can be and still be fairly accurate] Thu, 15 Jul 2004 06:41:19 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#f4c6fe90-6ba6-40ca-9192-f8163a62ee38 Alison 2004-07-15T06:41:19Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#41a12f03-1812-4f17-a9d1-ff39d041210e What IQ test are you referring to? The scales are different for different tests. people can be bragging they have IQ's of 142 which one some tests would make them smart and on others complete idiots. Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:06:07 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#41a12f03-1812-4f17-a9d1-ff39d041210e $item.owner.firstName 2004-07-14T21:06:07Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#484e6926-a1b2-47ad-976f-69dc5890c4a1 135 IQ. Adam--in praising George W. for "outfoxing" the Democrats and the UN, you seem to *yourself* see some things in blacks and whites. Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:41:34 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#484e6926-a1b2-47ad-976f-69dc5890c4a1 Benji 2004-07-14T20:41:34Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#052b09e1-8251-41a4-9c09-7410e5917e44 I don't know what my IQ is, but I do want to say: > I find that people with high IQs don't see things > in black-and-white or good-and-bad I have found that seeing things in simplistic ways, especially moralistically simplistic ways, is more a function of *emotional intelligence quotent* i.e. wisdom of the heart not head, as well described in that best seller from a few years back by Daniel Goleman. I do find that normal ol' head IQ and heart EIQ often corrolate. But not always. For example, I do not agree with the popular image that George W. Bush is dumb. He actually seems pretty brilliant to me, he sure has outfoxed the Democrats and the UN at many turns. What people are picking up on with him, it seems to me, is his low "EIQ". He lives in a simple world full of good people who are on his side and bad people who he must fight. Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:54:21 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#052b09e1-8251-41a4-9c09-7410e5917e44 Adam 2004-07-13T23:54:21Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#ae04aa89-6ba1-44d5-bbf9-1f1116d44744 I don't think it has to do much with education. I have consistently tested within a regular range since I was 6 years old. Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:04:05 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#ae04aa89-6ba1-44d5-bbf9-1f1116d44744 Alison 2004-07-13T23:04:05Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#87bc6c53-30b9-418b-9f8d-88553f332859 I tested as a 140 in college but I often wonder how much of IQ test competence comes from skills learned in college. I was studying for the GRE at the time so I had gotten quite adept at skipping around and such. Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:20:14 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#87bc6c53-30b9-418b-9f8d-88553f332859 elle 2004-07-13T19:20:14Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#1b0b1892-01f1-4f1d-9a74-7a6bbde6b112 again no formal testing but on average the tests come out at about 135, lowest test was 125 highest was 143 Mon, 12 Jul 2004 23:27:57 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#1b0b1892-01f1-4f1d-9a74-7a6bbde6b112 Joe 2004-07-12T23:27:57Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#0bf43b1c-da91-45e6-9df3-f1b919599bfb No formal testing, but online tests generally give me 143. Tue, 06 Jul 2004 23:32:36 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#0bf43b1c-da91-45e6-9df3-f1b919599bfb Rhianna 2004-07-06T23:32:36Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#6aecf304-14a0-4eb1-9f67-847b985f88f8 142 through an online test I took a while back. I haven't taken a "real" one, but I suspect it would be lower. Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:35:45 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#6aecf304-14a0-4eb1-9f67-847b985f88f8 $item.owner.firstName 2004-07-06T21:35:45Z http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#fb8d43f7-1b19-469d-a759-2c19df69c017 I am an INTJ, my sister is INTP. High IQs run in our family. Mine is 138, my children are both 130. I find that people with high IQs don't see things in black-and-white or good-and-bad; seeing the duality in everything and trying to find acceptance in a society that does draw lines between 'good' and 'bad,' amongst other things, causes me to grapple with my sanity and keep my head out of the deep waters of depression. When I visit message boards for people with above-average IQs, I see a lot of similarity in the topics and thought patterns, so I wondered if most INTJs have an above-average IQ. Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:18:12 GMT http://INTJ.tribe.net/thread/eb0b7f03-250e-47ca-855f-4a8ebe8fde3c#fb8d43f7-1b19-469d-a759-2c19df69c017 The Other Lisa 2004-07-06T21:18:12Z