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Psychopaths?

topic posted Wed, June 20, 2007 - 9:17 AM by  Unsubscribed
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Are INTJs the M-B type most likely to be mistaken for psychopaths?

I mean no disrespect. I am an INTJ (when I'm not an INTP, that is).
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  • Re: Psychopaths?

    Wed, June 20, 2007 - 4:57 PM
    I can't answer your question directly, but psychopaths are marked by their lack of empathy and foresight. Because of this, they also are much more likely than the general populace to have criminal records. I suspect that no competent rater would ever mistakenly declare someone in the normal range a psychopath.

    Psychopaths actually have abnormal brain structures:

    www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/9861.html
    • Re: Psychopaths?

      Tue, August 21, 2007 - 8:38 AM
      "psychopaths are marked by their lack of empathy and foresight."

      I would say an INTJ is categorized by the prior requirement, and but the latter is a complete contradiction of their attitude.
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        Re: Psychopaths?

        Tue, August 21, 2007 - 9:13 AM
        "'psychopaths are marked by their lack of empathy and foresight.'

        I would say an INTJ is categorized by the prior requirement, and but the latter is a complete contradiction of their attitude."


        I would qualify your response by saying that an INTJ is categorized by a lack of *apparent* empathy. I think we're characterized by a difficulty in communicating our emotions, not in feeling them internally.
  • Re: Psychopaths?

    Thu, July 5, 2007 - 5:00 PM
    I think INTJs could easily be the most likely type that the average person out there would identify as a troubled loner. It is probably too much to expect the average person to understand that most INTjs are quite content loners as opposed to troubled loners.
    • Re: Psychopaths?

      Sat, July 7, 2007 - 8:33 AM
      Psychopaths lack a conscience, are impulsive, and tend to be glib and natural confidence men who casually misuse others to get what they want. I don't thing any of these characteristics fit an INTJ.

      Are you perhaps confusing psychopath with psychotic? Someone who is psychotic might be describable as a trouble loner.
      • Re: Psychopaths?

        Tue, July 24, 2007 - 6:46 AM
        sounds like ... George W. Bush!
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          Re: Psychopaths?

          Tue, July 24, 2007 - 7:01 AM
          yupyup!! n michael moore applied this diagnostic to corporations [as macrocosms of the sick n twistd mind] also!! tick tock tick tock.. our institutions must be institutionalised!!!@#$ asap
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            Re: Psychopaths?

            Tue, July 24, 2007 - 8:21 AM
            eek i'd like to retract what seemed like an avid agreement.. i confess that i don't know so much bout your leader o_O
      • Re: Psychopaths?

        Tue, July 24, 2007 - 7:34 PM
        No, I wasn't confusing psychopaths and psychotics. I was simply saying that I don't think INTJs would be considered psychopaths, instead I think they would be seen as troubled loners. I also wouldn't characterize a "troubled loner" as psychotic. Many people simply don't like people who keep to themselves because they don't feel comfortable interacting with them. That's why I think people unfamiliar with INTJ characteristics would likely peg them as a "troubled loner."
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          Re: Psychopaths?

          Wed, July 25, 2007 - 12:09 AM
          well i can say that about a third of each year i seem to 'hibernate' [right now being that time of the year for me!].. whether this is the period i'm most 'troubled' i don't know.. but my long-term friends understand my nature [maybe it's because i'm a cancerian.. hermit crab!?] and dun give me such a hard time.. whereas friends who don't know me so well get really concerned when i turn down invitations with "sorry i've just got too much on my mind to go out for a couple of months!" or "i'm just going through a phase of isolation, i'll be back in a few weeks". they think there's something seriously wrong.. when 95% of the time i'm just my own favourite person to hang out with in these times.. n i have some serious thinking/conceptualising to do. kind of a regeneration.. thought revolution. some weekends back in highschool i'd be the only one in the group who wasn't going to a party cos "uhh... i'm gonna stay home n go on the internet." i got some really unimpressed looks o_O cos we were supposed to be real cool.
          but even when i am bein a social butterfly i'm been told i'm always seen as my own unit.. unless i'm really out of it, or am with really really fascinating company, i won't sit on the couch with the same group of people/person.. i mean hey, a rolling stone gathers no moss.. n i can't stand feelin restricted.
          but what, is it commonly understood that INTJs are loners?
          well i certainly never socialise for the sake of socialising if that's what that means. i wouldn't compromise myself like that. my time n energy are a couple of my best assets :D i'm very selective about my company.
          also i love having boyfriends.. and this past 6 [-9 depending.....] months is the longest period i've gone without having one. is it common for INTJs to be single? or is a 'troubled loner' just somebody who lives outside the box.. in their own minds etc? alone or lonely? i'm confused..] gosh sorry bout posting so extensively. n i still don't feel like i've explained myself anywhere near enough o_O
  • Re: Psychopaths?

    Fri, July 6, 2007 - 12:07 PM
    Well.....

    according to Jungian John Beebe, his anecdotal evidence shows that characters in contemporary American films representing the function of introverting iNtuiting (Ni, an IN_J's favorite function and best gift) tend to portray it via "a psychotic serial-killer, some kind of weird, offbeat sociopath who would give you the creeps."

    According to John, Ni is the deepest shadow of our ESTJ culture. He gives an example of Ni in movies with the famous shower scene from "Psycho," and says this is an example of "demonic Ni," meaning this is how most of the culture views and experiences it.

    He claims it is also a very unpopular function in general. (It's harder on the INFJs than the INTJs, I can tell you.)

    He also claims that Carl Jung singlehandedly rescued the gift of introverted iNtuiting from being relegated to sociopathy in the psycholoical field.

    I want to clarify here that I don't believe INTJs *ARE* psychopaths or most likely to *BE* psychopaths, but there is an UNFAIR perception around the Ni function that lends itself to this stereotype.
    • Re: Psychopaths?

      Tue, January 22, 2013 - 1:15 PM
      INTJ's Ni is many people's tertiary or inferior function, so INTJ cause a lot of people's inferior function to erupt, which result their hostile attitude toward INTJs. Also inferior Ni function is very good at making wild association that does not make any sense and afraid of possibility that is laughable.

      These 10 qualities:
      1. Superficial charm and above average intelligence.
      2. Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking.
      3. Absence of nervousness or neurotic manifestations.
      4. Unreliability.
      5. Untruthfulness and insincerity.
      6. Lack of remorse or shame.
      7. Antisocial behavior without apparent compunction.
      8. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience.
      9. Pathological egocentricity and incapacity to love.
      10. General poverty in major affective reactions.
      11. Specific loss of insight.
      12. Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations.
      13. Fantastic and uninviting behavior with drink, and sometimes without.
      14. Suicide threats rarely carried out.
      15. Sex life impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated.
      16. Failure to follow any life plan.

      These are as a matter of fact qualities of Se primaries. ESTPs & ESFPs. Think about it. However, many people are S primary and secondary oriented, these qualities do not threaten them, but actually associate the dismal S they see in N primaries and secondaries with their N inferior function..
      • Re: Psychopaths?

        Tue, January 22, 2013 - 1:28 PM
        I said Se primaries have a lot of these qualities, I will go over each list.

        1. Superficial charm and above average intelligence.
        Se primaries - superficial charm is their best. Above average intelligence? ESTP certainly.

        2. Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking.
        Se primaries, because their perception is based upon material reality.

        3. Absence of nervousness or neurotic manifestations.
        Se primaries - they are so suave in every social situations.

        4. Unreliability.
        ESFP is certainly this one.

        5. Untruthfulness and insincerity.
        ESFP and ESTP - ends justify the means attitudes.

        6. Lack of remorse or shame.
        Again, Se, primaries, because they live in the moment, and forget about past very easily.

        7. Antisocial behavior without apparent compunction.
        No compunction - this is another trait with Se. Antisocial DOES NOT mean not socialable person. Antisocial is amoral behavior.

        8. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience.
        Failure to learn from experience - very Se primary oriented behavior.

        9. Pathological egocentricity and incapacity to love.
        ESFP and ESTP - their need to show off and be praised constantly with attention and be fine with constant one night stand and such.

        10. General poverty in major affective reactions.
        If anybody thinks Se primaries react a lot, then observe them carefully. Just because they go with flow and act out at whim does not mean they are reacting to everything. As a matter of fact, the reason why they can be so suave is they calculate their every move moment to moment.

        11. Specific loss of insight.
        Insight is heavily associated with N primaries. This loss of insight is associated with N inferiors.

        12. Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations.
        ESTP / ESFP - they know how to use and manipulate people, but they have very difficult time bonding long lasting relations.

        13. Fantastic and uninviting behavior with drink, and sometimes without.
        ESFP - 'nuff said.

        14. Suicide threats rarely carried out.
        No idea about this one.

        15. Sex life impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated.
        Impersonal sex life - ESFP and ESTP. Just have sex and move on attitude.

        16. Failure to follow any life plan.
        ESFP and ESTPs have trouble think ahead more then a month.
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    Re: Psychopaths?

    Mon, July 23, 2007 - 11:52 AM
    psychopathy is marked by

    1. Superficial charm and above average intelligence.
    2. Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking.
    3. Absence of nervousness or neurotic manifestations.
    4. Unreliability.
    5. Untruthfulness and insincerity.
    6. Lack of remorse or shame.
    7. Antisocial behavior without apparent compunction.
    8. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience.
    9. Pathological egocentricity and incapacity to love.
    10. General poverty in major affective reactions.
    11. Specific loss of insight.
    12. Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations.
    13. Fantastic and uninviting behavior with drink, and sometimes without.
    14. Suicide threats rarely carried out.
    15. Sex life impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated.
    16. Failure to follow any life plan.

    i can see where these characteristics may be interpreted as being indicative of the INTJ.. because they all allude to a person who exists within a fortress of their own paradigm.. someone with no regard for their surroundings.. and little respect for social norms. but! they must be understood within the context of psychopathy.. as a diagnosis presented to explain a person’s severe challenges when relating [ineffectively, no less] to their environment..

    now i beg to differ that these are indicative of the [*n.b. 'balanced'!] INTJ because while you can subjectively interpret these characteristics on an individual basis and most likely get an affirmation, [.. like #13 ok for sure it applies cos sometimes speaking your mind doesn't always make for the best small-talk..]within the context of INTJness these indicators would really only apply in as much as yes, we maintain unique perspectives, and attempt to implement them.. but to the point of the disassociative tendencies implied in those diagnostics? i don’t think so. we are a lot more flexible and adaptive from what I understand of myself n the type generally, and we are particularly sensitive to the nuances and dyamism in our environment.
    [an interesting thing I read a while back was that Dr. Hannibal 'cannibal' Lecter [a prime example of secondary psychopathy], is a fictional INTJ.. and interestingly, so too is his 'pursuer', Clarice Starling [an INTJ not a sociopath]! so psychopathic or not, we may be ‘gifted’ with the inherent understanding of the criminal mind no less..//..?..]

    also i noticed Bill suggested that Josh consider psychosis.. which is the state of breaking with reality.. and i was only thinking about this myself earlier this evening.. when we live in a world so marked by Progress, by breaking boundaries, pushing the envelope, scientific discoveries, thought revolution, archaeological findings.. is it really so easy to define 'reality'? after all, many geniuses [artists, scientists, writers, philosophers] are considered insane or laughable in the lead up to an acknowledgement of their true intelligence n insight [one man's spinach is another man's poison ivy.] our realities are contingent upon so many factors!
    *sigh*.
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      Re: Psychopaths?

      Mon, July 23, 2007 - 11:54 AM
      AND as for #4.. i'm sure that most INTJs would hold themselves in contempt if they fell victim to insincerity or dishonesty. so i thought anyway.
  • Re: Psychopaths?

    Sat, August 4, 2007 - 3:44 AM
    I think that INTJs are often seen as possible psychopaths, however, MB types describe 'normal' personality types and psychopathology(pathology of an individual's psychology) seems to be a description of 'abnormal' psychology, so I don't think such beliefs are accurate per se...
  • Re: Psychopaths?

    Wed, August 15, 2007 - 10:14 PM
    yes, becuase people don't understand INTJs. we are a mystery to everyone around us. we could never be psychopaths, however, becuase we are not 'impulsive' or have any 'charm' to speak of.
    • Re: Psychopaths?

      Wed, September 26, 2007 - 8:19 PM
      being a psychopath is not just related to physical barberianism. you intjs could put someone in the canal with your warped minds!
      however, ENFPs on the other hand could be physical psychopaths, having been one myself, and an enfp. just one too many cold comments and you wouldnt have a mind left to think with....and dont you forget it!!!!
  • Re: Psychopaths?

    Sat, February 16, 2008 - 4:16 AM
    I wrote an article about INTJs and psychopaths for PoliceOne.com. The purpose of the article was to warn officers, in a light hearted way, to be extremely cautious about making judgments without sufficient evidence. INTJs are similar to psychopaths in very superficial ways. If one digs deeper, they are quite different. Although, I must admit, I did meet one INTJ who was a psychopath. Both types are very intelligent and talented, though usually in different areas. I have no data on the Myers-Briggs and psychopaths, but I would be very surprised if a large number are INTJs.
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    Re: Psychopaths?

    Sun, February 17, 2008 - 2:24 PM
    Apparently people in high school & college thought I was going to "blow up the school" (their words, not mine), I guess because I usually walked around with a pretty serious & focused look on my face and did not socialize unnecessarily. I did not make small talk or attempt to build any social network beyond what felt natural or was necessary to complete my work. And I am not a natural smiler, my facial expression is usually pretty rigid and "grim" to most people (though it feels perfectly natural to me). I smile when I'm happy but I did not enjoy school for the most part. "Blowing up the school" was not in my plans at all; I harbor no love for those institutions but I am not nearly so innately destructive -- and besides why would I want to kill/injure a bunch of hot babes?

    It is safe to say most people didn't really "like" me because I made almost no effort to fit in and be like everyone else, I just thought I was different or something (and most evidence points to this being true). Probably only a few thought I was a genuine psychopath/sociopath.

    The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle; I feel pretty crazy sometimes but I have little trouble blending into society without causing much of a ruckus. Also I have known some people who actually ARE certifiably crazy and I am definitely not crazy compared to them. I can be pretty psychically/emotionally vicious & ruthless when someone goes out of their way to stab me in the back but those cases are highly personal and it is rare that I let someone in far enough to be able to bring that side out of me. And even in such cases it has never devolved into physical violence or anything that could get me into legal trouble.
    • Re: Psychopaths?

      Tue, June 10, 2008 - 7:48 PM
      Agreed. In high school, (right after Columbine) some of the kids there accused me of much the same. I had a higher IQ than a lot of the kids my age and I did not fit in very well. But I had (and have) no intentions of harming other people even if I think they are complete idiots and probably wouldn't feel much sympathy for them if they were shot. It goes completely against my personal boundaries. Not to mention I don't feel like going to jail. I think a lot of INTJs unfortunately get picked on for our perceived natural impassiveness.
  • Re: Psychopaths?

    Mon, February 11, 2013 - 7:26 AM
    Certainly not. We definitely have empathy, I almost consider myself an empath. Living life with everybody else's emotions hounding me is difficult to deal with so I learn when and how to react with it, I.e. not letting it control me, and taking control of it instead. Also my foresight is soo developed being a psycho or sociopath makes no absolute sense. We are after all rational and logical creatures, not self absorbed idiots planning to kill others.

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