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INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

topic posted Fri, September 15, 2006 - 3:49 AM by  Boisenberg
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Hello, all

I'd like to share some insights on INTJ/ ENTP dynamics, romantic and otherwise and hope that you will follow up by doing the same.

I am a male ENTP who is lucky enough to have four close INTJ-friends, three male and one female. They are all different within the INTJ-spectre though.

There is a big difference to how I interact with those four but in general I prize them all dearly due to their flair for impersonal analysis and ability to put up a good argument.

As an ENTP I have a need for intelluctual sparring and do not mind bowing to superior arguments. However the reverse also rings true: I expect people who claim to be rational to bow to superior arguments themselves. As you might expect this is somewhat of a problem for the INTJs.

Contrary to the stereotype INTJ, I do not view Will as a merit in and by itself. Clinging to your original argument, even when refuted, is not a virtue in my book. Will can get you through though times. Will can accelerate your career progression. Will cannot make you right when you are wrong.

Also, my parrents likely have an INTJ/ ENTP marriage. INTJ mother, ENTP father.

They are still married although they should not be. Their marriage failed for reasons outside of the MBTI-model, most notably my father converting to Roman Catholicism to appease my mother and his likely psychopathic condition.

I once dated an INTJ. Mentally it could have worked out but I laid her off because I did not find her attractive enough. I did not know the MBTI at that time but if I had known I might also have backed out because of the similar makeup of my parrants' marriage.

Though I do wonder: Personalitypage.com recommeds the INTJ to go with eigther the ENFP or the ENTP. Have any of your tried this INTJ/ ENTP love match? And how about friendships?
posted by:
Boisenberg
Denmark
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  • Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

    Fri, October 20, 2006 - 8:58 AM
    You consider yourself lucky to have INTJ friends? Hmm. I feel cursed. Well, maybe that's an exaggeration. Its just that this new INTJ guy I met is very hard to understand. He is hilarious and smart and successful and enjoys debating just like I do. But he can be so withdrawn and self-absorbed that its impossible to know if I've offended him or if he's just busy in his basement constructing an exact replica of the Death Star from Return of the Jedi. Something about that detachment from the world around him is absolutely fascinating and refreshing - but it is also difficult to love. Do you know what I mean? Is the iNTJ capable of relationships (friendship or love) in the way that others (like ENTP) define it?
    • Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

      Sat, October 21, 2006 - 9:41 AM
      >..impossible to know if I've offended him or if he's just busy in his basement
      >constructing an exact replica of the Death Star .
      Odds are he just working on his Death Star... Muwhhahahaaa!!!
      INTJs are straight forward enough to tell you when they ARE offended
      but they will never ever tell you WHY or How they are offended.
      Often because they sometimes can not figure it out on their own
      or it would take too much time or energy to explain it all.
      They will often not give any feedback if they believe if doing so will not improve the situation.
      Some people react negatively when they do express (often tactlessly) that they are offended. They see it as if the communication is going to be more trouble than it is worth, Why bother .
  • Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

    Fri, November 17, 2006 - 9:22 PM
    Hello,
    There are many things about ENTP and INTJ dynamics that are hard to explain without significant background in socionics. However, they make a lot of sense once you understand them, so I will try to cover the basics.

    We have 8 traits, each arranged into 8 possible functional roles. The first two and the last two functions are the strongest. In the middle are the two weaker pairs. The top half of the psyche is known as the conscious mind, or the mental side. The bottom half is known as the unconscious or vital side.

    Since you and I are NT irrationals, (INTJ is irrational in Jungian terms) I'll use our types as an example. In you, Ne and Ti are the first two traits. These are in your "conscious strong" or "ego" side. In me, the traits in this slot are Ni and Te. Contrariwise, the last two traits, i.e. the "unconscious strong" or "id" side, are Ni and Te in you, and Ne and Ti in me.

    Now, you've probably noticed that INTJs seem to criticize a lot. Everything you say with confidence, they are eager to pick through with a fine-toothed comb. Similarly, everything they seem to accept rigidly is precisely what you feel most comfortable critically reviewing in your own mind.

    This is because the first function is characterized as confident acceptance, and the seventh is characterized as critical observation. In other words, your Ne is confident acceptance, but my Ne is critical observation. Furthermore, your Ni is critical observation and my Ni is confident acceptace. There's no way for it to be different for either of us, unless we figure out a way to magically change types.

    Now, you say that you think INTJs demonstrate too little willingness to change when we are wrong. The fact is, introverted functions hate to change, but will do so when absolutely necessary. Extroverted functions love to change and do so when not necessary. So think about what you're saying. We are "unwilling to change" too easily or too often for our given personality type. That's not a criticism, it's an observation, and a good one. ENTPs likewise are "willing to change" more frequently and more easily, and indeed crave to do so as soon as they can figure out a good reason to.

    In either case, it's the conscious accepting side talking. An INTJ actually likes to switch perspectives several times when performing critical observations. I suspect that an ENTP likes to hold a particular viewpoint in a stationary and complex way as a method of percieving it's potential flaws.

    Now as to the ideal type romantically, it's definitely not what personalitypages.com recommends. The best type according to socionists is the dual relationship. This is where your unconscious weak traits, i.e. "needs" are the other person's strong conscious traits. In the case of an ENTP, it is ISFJ (according to the standard MBTI model where SiFe is ISFJ and NiTe is INTJ). Such a person will always tend to understand your unconscious desires, and easily love you for who you are.

    A much less beneficial type for an ENTP is ESFP. Their conscious-strong traits correspond to your conscious-weak traits, which generally relate to one's insecurities. For an INTJ however, this type of person is their dual, because Se and Fi are their unconscious-weak traits. Now you know another part of the friction that ENTP/INTJ have. One's needs are the other's insecurities, and vice versa.

    There's more -- the Te vs. Ti thing, the rational/irrational thing (MBTI's J/P is not the same, but is related) and the exact nature of the insecurities/needs -- but you can figure it out with a little research. I just wanted you (and whoever's reading this) to know it's there, so you can look it up and know what they're talking about. Here's a link to get you started: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socionics
    • Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

      Fri, November 17, 2006 - 9:28 PM
      "Now, you say that you think INTJs demonstrate too little willingness to change when we are wrong. "

      Let me rephrase that. "you seem to be thinking" or something like that -- since that's obviously not what you said. I need to go to bed, sorry.
  • Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

    Sun, March 11, 2007 - 9:38 PM
    Hi!

    When I was in high school, my MBTI test results showed that I was ENTP. Then in college, I found out that I have become INTJ. My test results have always shown that I am INTJ since then.

    Now, I am working and I found it easy to deal with other INTJ's. We may have different interests but we get along just fine. (There's mutual respect.) I am not aware if there are any ENTP's in my workplace, though.

    As for INTJ/ENTP dynamics...
    Here's what I do when I deal with ENTP's:
    The key is to know what interests the ENTP. Get to the root. Sometimes, all you need to do is ask. ENTP's like to explore. They love to ask questions. Most, if not all, love to discuss and debate.. just like the INTJ's.

    With INTJ's:
    It's best to be precise and concise. No nonsense. Know how best to communicate with the INTJ. Speaking as an INTJ, I noticed that my likes and dislikes are very pronounced. You just have to look more closely. Once you find out what drives the INTJ (outlook, beliefs, and thought patterns), life will be much easier for you (and the INTJ if he/she cares).

    I hope this has been helpful.
  • Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

    Thu, June 21, 2007 - 8:14 AM
    It's interesting that personalitypage.com recommends ENFP or ENTP for a dating partner.

    ENFP - Superverisor relationship (where the INTJ is supervising the ENFP)
    ENTP - Mirror relationship, partners are always correcting each other all the time because they feel the other is no seeing the problem correctly.

    Actual duality occurs with ESFJ. It's odd that personalitypage.com didn't mention ESFJ at all.

    The relationship chart: www.socionics.com/rel/relcht.htm
    The Duality description: www.socionics.com/rel/dlt.htm

    Order by levels of 'comfort' the relationship types are:
    Relations of Duality
    Identical Relations
    Relations of Activity
    Mirror Relations

    So the ideal relationships (romantic or otherwise) for an INTJ is:
    ESFJ
    INTJ
    ISFP
    ENTP
  • Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

    Thu, November 22, 2007 - 3:10 AM
    I definiately think ENTP/INTJ is a very interesting match. As an INTJ, I think I completely disagree with on the rational arguments part. Whenever I tend to think there is some logic in the other person's position, I tend to try to give them the benefit of the doubt and try to understand their argument. INTJs are anything but weak when it comes to admitting that they are wrong. If you are convincing and your argument makes sense, I would easyily admit I'm wrong and adopt your postiion without much discomfort...

    I'm currently involved in a relationship with an ENTX, and it's absolutely amazing. We have entire fantasy worlds created out of our imaginations and connect really well on both a mental and emotional level. I think it's the ideas that really keep us together. We also are very open with our feelings (just because we're NT doesn't mean we're bad with feelings) so that really helps also. Especially when one of us feels bad... we can try to figure out logically why we feel that way, and try to solve the root of the problem.


    --------------------
    INTJ Personal Development - www.whatithinkabout.com
    • Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

      Tue, April 1, 2008 - 11:45 AM
      Here's an idea of INTJ-ENTP dynamics. What I do notice is that dissagreements in the sciences can get escalated into feuds between different theorist personalities: Newton vs. Liebniz (with liebniz definately being the _NTP and Newton being the _NTJ)
      For a sort of dramatic example that was most likely between an INTJ and an ENTP, think of Tesla vs. Edison (tesla=intj) (alternating current vs. direct current). Because really, the ENTP-INTJ dynamic between them was about who could be a better 'wizard' (fitting for intuition types). Tesla was 'way out there' like the intuition type he was, and it really freaked Edison out. What's amazing is the shamefull behavior of Edison just for the sake of discrediting tesla (Edison who was the one who acted really demonically in this feud- talk about being absorbed by the shadow). Even though edison was against capital punishment, he set up many animal executions using AC, and he made sure that the electric chair would also run on AC.

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currents
      carloslever.blogspot.com/2007/...a.html
  • Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

    Sat, January 17, 2009 - 7:35 AM
    ENTP female here married to a INTJ male for just about 3 years now. Loving it. He keeps my interest to be sure. I think that he's usually the one spotlighted though. I'll talk about me just every once and a while and after one sentence he will change the subject completely about what he's been up to. He's cool enough to have an ego and requires LOTS of praise. At least he gives me something to argue about ;)

    Work schedule wise, he loves to take days almost straight working, almost days straight for computer games, then almost days sleeping. lol. Often forgets to eat until he gets up and can't wait another minute for food being prepared. Normal for an intj?

    Anyone he talks to (except me at times) by the end of the conversation converts them to his opinion.

    The funniest guy I've EVER met by the way (often subtle humor).

    Also, he hates other peoples clutter; His own is okay though (still not as bad as mine). lol.

    So funny when he has his "thinking time" in the middle of a conversation, then 2 minutes later comes back from the silence in response to others questions. (The thinking time is about something completely different than the question asks.)

    He still thinks he will never ever step foot in a plane again since they are so dangerous until I remind him like I have for all our other flights that it is safer statistically than driving to our destination. (Must be backed up with some kind of proof or else it doesn't count ;)

    So, I keep conversations that aren't all about him pretty to the point and somehow still bore him. Any advice to keep his attention? Yes, being naked helps.
  • Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

    Mon, May 4, 2009 - 1:09 PM
    I am an INTJ (extreme case) and never thought I would get along so well with an E type as my close friends are mostly I's. That being said, I have been talking to an ENTP and I must say that her outward focus draws out my thoughts and stimulates me in a way only an E could. Its a great experience.

    I had a doubt regarding the ENTP's. Are they really the honey bee variety which keep looking for greener pastures once they lose interest. It is important for me to know that as I would approach this association more conservatively and invest less time and effort in it if such is the case.

    Thanks.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

    Mon, April 26, 2010 - 10:54 PM
    I actually just posted about this in the ENTP thread. I'm an INTJ and ENTPs to me are incredibly attractive; to be honest I can't quite explain what it is that I find so attractive about them. They're just sexy lol.
    • Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

      Thu, April 29, 2010 - 11:36 PM
      I'm an INTJ female, my first marriage was to an ENTP. Very fun...for the first couple of years. Fiery to the end..10 yrs later. Next marriage was to an ENFP... the superior thing on socionics I found to be completely true. x's complain I am overly critical, impossible to understand, and bring a new xtreme to the word stubborn. x's raved about how fun I can be to talk to and creative and responsible for house and family, but the bad outweighed the good in the long run -- second relationship ended after 10 yrs. Newbie to this stuff, I find it fascinating and for me about 20 yrs too late.

      at this point i figure i'm just not marriage material and that perhaps for the right minded INTJ female, ENTP and ENFP relationships can work...both of mine started out with a bang and ended only mildly bitter.
  • Re: INTJ/ ENTP Dynamics

    Sat, September 25, 2010 - 4:30 PM
    ENTP IS one of the most common types for psychopathy (not AsPD), along with INTP. I've made a few take the MBTI. What about him makes you say the P-word?
    Still, that's exactly why they need an INTJ to give their unprincipled/unscrupulous lives some rooting without stooping to irrational/emotional statements.

    Many of my closest friends are either INTJ or ENTP like myself. The two just fit together.

    Although I enjoy the company of some INFJs and most ENFPs, they're just not the same as their Rational cousins.

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