i picked up on those expressions too.. the blinking, and then a moment when he opened his eyes wide and raised his eyebrows in shock almost. but it wasn't consistent. these were 2 (very marked) moments in a 10 minute span.

>First off, I think sometimes INTJs do get into dysfunctional relationships. Sometimes they are like ripe apples on the tree, waiting for someone to come and "pick" them, because they don't have any idea how to "pick" for themselves. Other times they "pick" inappropriately, because they just aren't tuned into relationship. Relationship is NOT their strong point. <

This may very well be true that we often start out like this, but it is certainly not how we must end up. I would identify with this 12 years ago. Even 3 years ago professionally. Today, the story is quite different with me. Thanks a lot to self-reflection, my interactions here with you, Cali, and others, a whole lot of reading, and a whole lot of real-world experimentation.

> In like manner, he's told me stories of everyone going to the bar for a celebratory drink after work, and when he went to join them, nobody was there. Turned out they changed the venue and never bothered to tell him. <

>He was often snubbed this way, and left puzzled about why. Understanding type brought him a lot of answers. <

> This kind of treatment is common for INTJs I've discovered by talking to several -- either the relationship goes south or wasn't there in the first place, and they're just in the dark about it. And God help them when it comes to playing favorites -- they have No Idea when a knife is in their back and they don't get the job or promotion because somebody doesn't LIKE them. That's territory they just aren't familiar with, and can be a dreadful blindspot (compared to, say, ENFPs, who always know who does or does not like them). <

This was possiby the most difficult thing for me to both recognize, and once I did, understand how to "play the game". But again, a lot of reflection, educating myself, and experimentation.

> Interestingly, my husband is 58, and only recently is he "getting it" about how important and valuable relationship is. It's kind of weird. Like the other day he was listening to NPR, and it sorta dawned on him that everything on the planet is about relationship, starting with the relationship of the elements of an ATOM. It's kind of amazing to listen to him talk about it -- it's like relationship as seen from a scientific perspective. It's especially radical because he admits his tendency is to be the "lone ranger," and to act like he's all alone on a desert island sometimes. (And why wouldn't he? He's on the road approximately 38 weeks out of the year going into strange environments on a regular basis and winning over students. He's got to make a lot of judgment calls on his own while he's out there, so to say he's "independent" is the biggest understatement.) <

I understand this argument and making this kind of enlightened connection very well. It happened with me about 5 years ago.

> As to your remonstrations, I don't believe I'm focused on negativity -- the whole question came up when Ashley asked about problems between our type patterns, and I was straightforward and forthcoming about our challenges. So please remember the context in which the conversation started. <

I'm not trying to critisize. It is simply the ONLY other INTJ-INFJ relationship I can "peer into". I haven't exactly found any books on this specific issue. So for me, and coupled with the fact that you speak my lingo (better than I do) regarding type (indeed, some of my lingo originated from you and your references), this makes what you have shared a gold mine for me, and hence, I have a need to pick it all apart and understand as much of it as I can. I believe Samuel Clemmens once said, "History doesn't repeat, it rhymes." Well, I believe the same may be true of relationships. In otherwords, we won't have exactly the same issues or be starting from the same place, but I think two relationships with the same two types involved in them should certainly contain some of the same issues simply because the perspectives of the participants are similar. And from what you have written and shared, I have found this to be very true. As for the negativity, some of what you have shared, and the way you have stated it in the video... If I were your husband, I would feel like it was belittling to me, and even though we had discussed it before hand, it would hurt my feelings or make me a little bit definsive. Not noticibley or visibly over one incident, but I can't help but imagine that these types of interactions happen often... even the part where you were furious when you were lost... this is just... small potatos to me... and it takes a LOT of energy to adjust my behavior to accomodate not making you angry... lol... in case you haven't noticed, I'm relating my own personal experience with yours... lol it probaly sounds like I'm mixing the two.. but it is like looking in a mirror with those kind of interactions... but seeing a rhyme.

> Personally, I think it takes a lot of courage to admit that your relationship isn't perfect and that's okay, you're working with it. (During relationship coach training, they explained that most problems in marriages are like having a bad back -- incurable, and you kind of have to baby it a little. Don't put a strain on it, and don't expect it to go away.) There's no shame in admitting you have challenges -- everybody does. That's the whole purpose of relationship, as I already said. <

You're right it is courageous, and I wouldn't want you to think anything less that I don't believe that. Again, this is the only external thing that relates most closely that I can pick apart.

> As far as his blinking goes -- he is a blinker. Secondly, I often "think" more rapidly than he does. (He claims it's my introverted Thinking, and that may be the case.) So I was talking and thinking faster than he was. Thirdly, we were trying to squeeze the conversation into ten minutes and still cover all the bases; and fourth, it was my idea, my project, my thing -- so he was having to play second fiddle to me, and he doesn't do that very well. You are probably seeing some of our "alignment" problems.

Well, I can certainly accept that the expanaition are valid ones... I can relate to everythign you have said... doen't mean I'm buying it yet on the blinking though.... lol... your suspect... (squints eyes) lol...

> In presentation terms, he's what they call a "blue" speaker (logical, fact-based), while I am what they call a "red" speaker (emotional, dynamic, charismatic). It's a weird combination we've never been able to reconcile. <

> In no way am I suggesting INTJs are not compassionate -- however, most INTJs I know run like hell from anything that seems touchy-feely. And he admits it was a big GULP for him to undergo coach training. He really struggled with the weekend training when everybody was crying and getting into their "stuff" -- but he got through it okay. (Talk about trial by fire.) <

I don't cry. I leak. and only enough for me to know it still works. Then I shut it off and solve the problem... lol

> I kinda wondered if I had recommended "We" to you previously. I'm sorry you didn't have a better experience with it. <

No, no... that's ok... I really appreciated your recomendation, and I bought it, I got some good things out of it, and I have recommended it to others when I thought it would resonate with how they look at things...

> Knowing you here on Tribe as I do, I have the sense that you're still very much the idealist about relationships -- and in type terms I would probably link that to your introverted Feeling idealism. <

how so do you think I am an "idealist"? elaborate... what does that mean? I mean, I understand very well that people are not perfect, and there is no such thing as a perfect relationship. It is more about having and developing the tools to mend fences when they break, and how well two people can play in the sandbox together (actually, I don't like the fences analogy.. it implies seperation... I actually prefere the opposite of that... lol).

>FWIW.
FWIIAW