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Rarity of INTJ women

topic posted Sat, August 15, 2009 - 6:05 PM by  Mimi Maya
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What do you guys think?

There are more great information about intjs located here...

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posted by:
Mimi Maya
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  • INTJ women out there... please post something here. It is said that only 0.8% of women are INTJ - by far the most rare of any among 16 types.
    • Hi ,
      I am an INTJ woman and I certainly have all the typical INTJ characteristics- An introverted ambitious independant academic . I think that INTJ women must be very rare because I have never found anyone similar to myself !!! I generally get on better with men as they are more logical. Independence and intelligence are the two qualities I value most in other people , if they dont have those qualities, I am not interested.
      Does anyone else find that they sometimes feel very alone ( not lonely ) , just the feeling that the majority of other women are totally different from them ? Also does any other INTJ woman out there lack maternal instinct. I dont have any. Apparently INTJ are not the most engaged parents.
      Anyway its great to know that there are other INTJs out there
      • I also have a lot of the typical charactoristics of an INTJ personallity. Everything you said here sounds just like me. I actually feel downright uncomfortable in groups of only females. I hate crowds to begin with but a room full of strange females is pretty much the worst.

        I too find that I tend to feel most comfortable with intellegent men. If I am in a group situation where there are a large number of females but the group is directed/controlled by a male leader then I'll have an easier time with it.

        Usually I don't have many friends, not because I am not likeable or interesting; simply because beyond having my husband and perhaps one or two best friends I don't really go looking to make new friends.


        I wouldn't say that I LACK maternal instict....its just a differnt aproach. I'm not a mom yet but I do care a lot about the athletes I coach. Even if I do come across a little harsh in lessons sometimes. (for example I have been working very hard to give more praise) While other female coaches I've noticed tend to sugar-coat or ignore mistakes I tend to tackle the issue straight off the bat. I also tend to not be overly sensitive my students emotions. That dosn't mean I don't know what the're feeling. If one of my athletes is scared I remind them that they need to use logic to override their fear.



        Do any other INTJ women find it easier to learn from male instructors? I've observed that I learn fastest and with the least confusion from men.

      • Hi Imelda,

        I also feel quite alone most of the time, and frustrated at being different from the vast majority of people, women and men, though I have frequently been told that I think 'like a man' -yet I do not lack compassion, nor do I lack sympathy. I feel that I do have a mothering, if not a maternal, instinct. I feel strongly protective towards all who are vulnerable, nevertheless, I have absolutely no desire to have children. I do feel a strong sense of responsibility which leads me to intend to adopt and raise an older child at some point when I am in the right place to do so.

        You are not the only one out there.
        Peace,
        ShiraDest
    • I was an ISTJ about 10 years ago, and recently re-did my Myers Briggs and have evolved into an INTJ. I am a 51 year old female middle management exec at a Fortune 50 company, with an MBA from a mediocre University. I run circles around my younger, better educated colleagues and co-workers in terms of innovation, creativity, drive, passion, and driving results.

      Yes, we are out there, and we are moving and shaking!
      • Nobody "evolves" into another type. To claim that you have betrays your ignorance of type and the instrument(s). Type is in your DNA. Sure, your reported type changes (meaning the outcome of the test can change easily enough), but your inborn, innate pattern does not.

        Here's a blog article on the topic from type expert Donna Dunning:
        www.dunning.ca/blog/does-...type-change

        The assessments are at *best* 70% accurate, which means it is common for one of the letters to be wrong, but sometimes as many as ALL of the letters are wrong. Accordingly, all instrument results are suspect, so I don't trust any of the letters you've claimed.

        Instrument results are so unreliable that the virtual self-discovery programs I offer are assessment-free. My specialty seems to be helping people who have scored INTJ, INFJ, or INTP on assessments find their true best-fit pattern -- which more often than not is ENFP. It's astonishing how regularly it works out that way. (For the record, these are usually the people who "run circles" around other people in terms of "innovation, creativity, drive, passion, and driving results." I invite you to contemplate that idea for a while. :-D)

        Here's an explanation and testimonial from a very satisfied client posted on my own blog:
        www.typeinsights.com/blog/dr...fj-enfp/

        Enjoy.

        -Vicky Jo :-)
        MBTI Master Practitioner / Type Discovery Expert
        CPCC, PCC, IGIP, JCDC, ORSCer!
        • Jo
          Jo
          offline 0
          I agree that you "are what you are". However, it may be that you have become more honest about your preferences.
          Consider this: INTJ’s don’t make people particularly comfortable, and the people I knew in my younger life spent a great deal of time trying to “fix” me (so THEY could be more comfortable!) The first time I took the MB questionnaire I had a particularly difficult time finishing it, because I was trying to satisfy those people. Obviously I was a miserable square peg in a miserable round hole.

          Fast forward 25 years (different friends, different partner, and different career) and I finished the questionnaire at a run. I don’t need to apologize for reading a book rather than going to a party, and the people who appreciate me know where to find me. Same for you, I expect.
    • Supposedly, I am an INTJ. I just recently took the test again though and it came up as ISTF. Now I'm really wondering about the accuracy of Myers Briggs.
      • Good that you are worrying! According to the psychometrics published in its own manual, the MBTI is at best 70% accurate.

        Now that's an extraordinary accuracy rate for a psychometric instrument (statistics and measures are required to become an MBTI faciitator). But it's not 100% accurate!

        That's why one of the requirements of facilitating MBTI assessments is to do an "in-person" feedback session to validate the results. Otherwise we could just put shopping carts on our websites and sell while we sleep, automating the results to be shipped via email all over the world.

        A good facilitator can help you get to your true best-fit pattern. (The bad ones just echo the test results. :-P)

        None of which helps you learn what type is about -- neither what Jung intended, or what the related models describe.

        Good for you that you've realized the test is not infallible. Now the question is whether you will go on the learn more and try to understand it, or throw up your hands and walk away because a 70-year-old instrument isn't perfect.

        -Vicky Jo :-)
        Type Discovery Specialist / MBTI Master Practitioner

        PS: There's no such pattern as an ISTF type pattern. Typo I hope?
    • I am an INTJ. I tried to categorize myself at one time and in doing so took an online test. To my dismay, it explained a lot of who I am without explaining the WHY. That used to drive me crazy because nearly everywhere I go I feel like the one on the outside looking in -- studying. I wanted to know how to "fix" me because my family are very sociable people. And, to be honest, I don't want to be particularly sociable -- and I don't even really want to want to be sociable -- but I think maybe sometimes I want that feeling that people who are sociable seem to have. They look light-hearted and happy.

      I cannot recall ever meeting another female INTJ. I have had a great mentor in my field who is a male INTJ. I always hope that there'll be someone (female) at my job or church or neighborhood who I could befriend who is INTJ. Deep discussions leave most of my friends and acquaintances scratching their heads at me and once again I am the oddball. I would love to socialize with INTJ's and discover whether we would relate well or whether we'd just be a group of oddballs with one another!

      One of things that I do like being an INTJ is that I am driven. It is a drive that is purely innate. I can't help it. I always want to learn something new or better a skill I already have. AND I don't even have to share with others that I am learning something new. I can keep it purely to myself.

      One question I have is, is there anyone out there who -- as an INTJ -- was abused or neglected as a child? I don't think my mother remembers all the slaps and insults and comparisons to my older sister that were meted out to me when I was a little. While logically I know that the child-victim is not to blame, I wonder whether anything in my personality ticked my mother off. Or maybe a quiet child that never told was the perfect patsy.

      If anyone has any feedback, I am interested in hearing it.

      emc
      • I am an INTJ woman and I was abused by my mother. I agree that it wasn't our fault. It is never the child's fault. She hated who I was. The core of the verbal abuse was that I was a mistake, I should have never been born, I was the cause of her marital difficulties, I was the cause of all her problems, etc. I never thought about it before I read your question, but yeah I think there were some INTJ traits of mine that definitely bothered her. Being able to be done with her after a certain point and not caring what she thought about me (both INTJ traits) really got under her skin. It's frustrating to a sadist to have your victim not be all that affected by what you do, not have them yearn for your approval and love. Now of course, the abuse did its damage because we INTJ's are human beings with feelings and emotions, and of course she did hurt me, but I think you know what I mean here. In addition, I think the flip side of it for me was that my INTJ traits also helped me to survive...my rationality (I knew she was seriously messed up by the time I was 9), ability to strategize plans and carry them out (my life will be different, I will make a life apart from her, I will never do this to my kids), my extreme independence, being done with her, not caring what she thought of me, these all helped save me. I am a remarkably healthy person given what was done to me as a child. There are many factors, but my inherent personality is a big part of it. Being an INTJ is the best.
    • I am an INTJ female, always have been since I was a child. I have often been mistaken as an extravert because of my *self-confidence,* independence, and pragmatic nature. I would like to point out a few things that have been neglected to be described about this personality type, or maybe it is just me..... But I do not lack the ability to feel, nor am I afraid of my feelings. I CHERISH my feelings so much that I don't allow those that I cannot trust with them to see them. I do not try to run from them, rather try to MASTER them. In other words, when I feel something, I begin internally analyzing *why* I feel that way, or what has led me to feel a certain way. Then I decide if it is worth expressing or whether it was an error on my part. I have read posts on here where women claim that they have impatience for needy people. I on the other hand do not have impatience for them; rather I have impatience for their inability to see reason. I have a huge heart and always want to help those that seek my help, but become frustrated when they refuse my advise only to regret it in the future. It is not the person that aggravates me, but rather their watered down vision that aggravates me. I do not like anything to be wasted... time, effort, possessions, or even FEELINGS. I only invest a part of myself if I truly believe that it is worth my investment and will have a positive outcome. I like myself and my ability to solve problems, but I do not like that my motives are often misunderstood. Like many on this page, I get labeled quite frequently and usually the labels are completely inaccurate. Many other personality types become offended when I don't agree with them or if I argue a certain issue. My motto is- it is ok to agree to disagree. We are all different and everyone's perception of reality will be different.... which is what leads me to one final thought that I wish to share....
      *** When the assessment tools were devised, they were devised by someone with a certain personality type. The questions are directed from the thought process of whatever personality type(s) developed the assessment. The readers or tested on the other hand, may be of varying personality types. *** What the test developer intended in the question may not be what the tested perceived the question to be*** which could reflect in the results of a person's "said" personality type. For me, the INTJ description was accurate only to an extent. Because we are such deep individuals, I do not think that someone can accurately describe an INTJ unless they themselves are an INTJ. The results of the tests are somewhat subjective in nature also, only offering the interpretations of the perceptions of those that devised the tests and results. Therefore, I agree that there is no personality test that is 100% accurate especially if the motives of one are not perceived in the same way by the other.
  • "Post Something" is vague. As such I shall make a random assessment.
    Personally, I think there are inherent types and those forged by will in society. I would assume INTJ females are inherently rare in comparison with other types. I think sensory types are least rare simply on the basis of supply and demand within our American society. It takes more action upholders to push the machine and less to create and analyze the system.

    It is far easier to test as intuitive than to actually be an intuitive. Until this sort of psychology has merit in scientific fact, the assumed ratio of type and ability to determine another's type is up for grand debate. As it stands only one's self can truly assess their own type and only under a significant understanding of the process.

    As our society changes, I could see more women believing they are INTJ, INTP and even INFJ after establishing careers and societal roles stereotyped as befitting these types. It would be more likely to notice ENTJ and ENTP out of the NT groups, however. It's important to remember to compare what you will to do in circumstance separately from who you are
    and have been in your life. If you cannot separate this notion then most likely are not an INTJ.

    It's far more complicated than some bebo quiz or a search for self on quizzilla some rainy day. Intuitive types are rare despite our social increase consciously seeking knowledge for all above the grind. Female NT may abound as frequently as males, but any true NT woman will attest to the struggle on how this plays out in their social life and pursuits. I've not personally met another NT woman who has not tried to mask some aspect of what comes with a rational personality at some point in their life. This alone throws the ratio for accurate testing into a dubious range.

    • I have read your post with interest. Why do women try to mask their rational personallity, do you think? Is rationality underrated in women?

      Most of the people I know, men and women, are rational people. Thinking, analyzing situations, reacing a conclusion - all come naturally to them. They don't try to mask it or deform it. They like it.

      However, most of my friends are finding it difficultto act upon their decisions. It is the translating thoughts into actions" part that get them stuck, and then the rationalizing begin: I can not do it because it goes against my character, I shouldn't do it because nobody else does, I can not do it because it is not the right timing - what ever they can think of. Being rational, they recognize, sometimes, that they are avoiding their decisions because they are afraid, but that does not help to motivate actions...

      I wonder if not-rational people have the same problems.
  • Unsu...
     
    I would like too see more research done on the testing and its accuracy. As for the shortage , if there is a shortage is it nurture or is it nature?
    • The official MBTI has been tested repeatedly since its inception in 1942 -- that's almost 70 years of ongoing testing.
      More information is available on the publisher's official website at www.cpp.com/Products/mbti/mbti_info.aspx

      According to its own user manual, the MBTI (classified as a Level B psychological instrument) is at best 70% accurate. That means there is a strong likelihood one of the four letters received will be wrong.

      Since such things are obviously unpredictable, it could mean that all four letters came out right -- OR even that all four letters came out *wrong*. (I've seen it enough times.) To wit, Isabel Briggs-Myers (who created the instrument) said, "No pen-and-paper test can tell you who you are."

      The free quizzes and knock-offs widely available on the internet have NO reliability studies -- they are simply an attempt to mimic the gold standard, and the fine print will assure you that they should not be counted on. They typically promote misleading information, such as implying the numerical scores are significant, and claiming they represent "strength" of a process (which is unmeasurable).

      Furthermore, any statistics about type in the population are completely hypothetical. The only statistics are based on MBTI results (which are gotten through various questionable means and remain unverified), and then assumed to be accurate for the entire population of the world -- a ludicrous assumption indeed.

      When you compound these assumptions with the fact that MBTI results are at best 70% accurate, you have a pretty flimsy proposition all around.

      Additional information is available on the website www.INTJ.org

      The more important conversation to have is not about nitpicking the assessment and its flaws, but delving into and fully grasping the model of psychological types, upon which the MBTI is based. Isabel Myers wrote, "The purpose of the MBTI is to make the theory of psychological types by C.G. Jung practical and useful."

      Jungian Joe Henderson, who studied firsthand with C.G. Jung himself, said, "Like all superior creations of the human mind it [type] is more nearly perfect than its user, yet its only real function lies in its use. Such application requires a conscious awareness which is extremely hard to maintain until through practice it may become in a way habitual.”

      In other words, it is misguided to question the validity of the MBTI instrument, and infinitely more satisfying to master the theory of psychological types.

      Naturally, that's a much harder subject to master -- AND that's what makes it so satisfying.

      I hope this helps.


      -Vicky Jo :-)
      • Unsu...
         
        Hello Vicky, please do not think I am antagonizing but I must ask
        What would be the purpose of mastering the theory of psychological types if that which we use to measure is inaccurate, how would we find a way to make the typing practical and useful if it can barely be measured accurately? or are you saying when we understand the typing better, better measuring devices or test will be made, that will make it more accurate and applicable?
        • Lilly,

          I am chuckling at what I consider to be INTJ "idealism." :-)

          A little anecdote: when my INTJ husband was in grade school, the teacher gave the students a math exercise: to approximate the volume of the classroom. So my husband eyeballed the length of the room, did some calculations, and eventually gave his "approximation" figure to the precision of three decimal figures. The teacher laughed himself silly, which upset and offended my husband. Finally the teacher explained what "approximate" meant -- you can't start with a "guess" number and then trust it to the level of three decimal places. It's a flawed premise to begin with! My husband never forgot the humiliation of that experience, AND he learned the lesson. "Approximate" is not "precision."

          And when it comes to "measuring" anyone's psychology, it simply cannot be done.

          For instance, you have a preference for Thinking and I have a preference for Feeling. How could we ever *measure* how logical each of us is? Are you 87.4% logical on some kind of imaginary scale, whereas I am only 49.7% logical? After all, how does one define "logical" anyway? (My extraverted Feeling is *quite* logical, by the way. :-D)

          When Jung was told of Isabel Briggs-Myers' assessment, he declined to complete it, but encouraged her, saying it would probably contribute a lot to the field of Psychological Types. Sadly, I have a hunch that he would not be so inclined to think so now were he to see the disastrous applications and interpretations of the MBTI that have occurred.

          The MBTI does not "measure" -- it SORTS. Big difference. It sorts people into "buckets." Those "buckets" are the eight cognitive processes, which are 8 forms of consciousness we ENGAGE IN.

          Like my husband's boyhood experience with approximations, the MBTI does a similar thing: based on a series of questions, it *approximates* what someone's psychological type may be.

          Yet, the formula it works with is about as flawed as the thumbnail guess my husband came up with for the length of the room. It may get very close, or it may be waaaay off. Either way, I wouldn't trust it enough to hire a carpenter to build something to those measurement specifications!

          The area of psychology is one of constantly shifting sands. I believe (and I am confident that Jung would agree with me) that it is an inappropriate field for which one should attempt to apply "measurement." As that old saying goes, "there is no there there." How can we possibly "measure" consciousness?

          Event writing that, I KNOW perfectly well that such a notion flies in the face of INTJ idealism. EVERYTHING should be measurable -- if it can't be measured, it's only because someone hasn't yet figured out a way to do it yet! :-)

          I hope this satisfies your question, Lilly. Please let me know how it lands.
  • a friend had a book and i took the test, resulted as INTJ or 'mastermind'. i won't argue that.
    my husband resulted ENFP or 'champion'. the two are supposed to be a perfect match, i would agree we work very well together. i am very quiet, he is loud. i prefer to be alone, he is constantly making plans with friends and encouraging me from my shell.
    when we hear about a new plan or idea, i like to know everything about it before i say yes. i have always happened to notice when something will go wrong, and then been too shy to prevent it. i am trying to overcome my hesitation to speak up more, since most of the time people take me seriously. even my worst plans end up a hit.
    i'm not 100% sure that i am an INTJ, since i have trouble with timing and responsibility. i like and need schedules, but don't implement them. i love making lists. at work i cannot multitask, i'll just end up running in circles. if i can focus on one thing, i can do it very well. i have lost a few jobs for being too detailed (slow) and not doing more than i was asked to (answering phones and talking to customers when all i want to do is focus on production).
    i am unemployed in a small town. my natural inclinations work against me. i do not want to be a receptionist or a nurse or housekeeper. i don't want to work with the public. my dream job is to make jewellery or upcycled clothing and accessories, but i am better at reproducing than originating designs, and don't know where to start.
    i am trying to find a job without lying about my abilities or compromising my integrity.
  • All of the N personality types have a low occurrence in the population. But INTJ is probably about the most unfeminine personality there is, so some INTJ women have probably picked up strategies to mask their type unconsciously, to better fit cultural stereotypes. (I think the clash of my appearance and my personality leaves some people pretty surprised.)
    In online forums, I sometimes get accused of being a guy. Just being INTJ, that's all.
    • Unsu...
       
      Do you think so? Everyone seems to know I'm a woman straight off the bat on online forums, even if I don't have a picture, or mention my name or gender. Most people describe me as a very feminine person, although what they mean exactly by that is hard to say.
    • Hi there. I really really agree with people being shocked and surprised of the clash between appearance and personality.
      I think we do get a bad rap more than the males for being intj. I have always gotten flack and learned to somewhat mask things althogh I think I"m very ladylike by nature.
      What I don't think fits me is that I'm a nerd like others. I just feel very indifferent from others. If I allowed myself, I could easily probably turn into one, but I don't think its healthy to not always be reaching and learning from all other types. Thats what makes us tolerant of each other.
      So I guess although most is bang on, I don't think I come accross as arrogant like I keep reading. Do you guys see that written all over? I also dont like details much. I would love to be a corperate strategist, or a judge. I so get the lawyer thing not be appealing, we see thru that. However being a judge because you have more power to be meaningful as we are incredibly rational. Okay here is an interesting thing for you girls. I went to a thermographer which more accurage than an M.R.I. They discovered that I am no longer using the female part of my brain and use the mans side!!! They say do to traumatic events, which I did go thru, but now I can't help but wonder if that is just accurate of most intj women? What do you think?
      • That's very interesting...Well, isn't the male side(left) the logic side of our brain?
        The female(right) side is the feeling, chit chat side?
        That would make sense...but I have to say, I suck at math. lol
        ~
        Shantel
    • Absolutely INTJ women are socialized to be more "feminine." I am a girly girl in many ways and I am pretty (I even drive a pink VW Beetle) and people often comment on the jarring difference between what I look like on the outside and my personality, too. I have often been told "you think like a man," which I always took as a compliment because usually the person meant I was rational. I imagine there are more INTJ women than is purported, but they have been socialized out of it so they don't test accurately. It is sad in a funny way or maybe funny in a sad way, that our society has such rigid expectations and interpretatations of what is feminine and what is masculine.
  • Hi just found this tribe, hello !


    Well, here's something to chew on ,

    I'm female and have tested and retested thinking my score was wrong, it always comes out ntj, mostly i's sometimes, rarely e's
    I'm also Pisces and quite artististic. However, as far as an occupation I'm in a math oriented one. This duality while a notorious Piscean quality, constantly has me on 1 side or the other and the two are always struggling. That said, I'm forever analyzing its just second nature to me, whether its the artistic side (is this 2 mm too far on the right ? ) or some other more pragmatic down to earth problem.

    As far as the gender distinction raised above, I think it has to do with an INTJ's approach to others. I'm direct, sometimes to my detriment though on my very good days I'm quite the diplomat, but I've noticed being female with this type of personality seems to throw the men off . I'd gather that's the case of most other intj women here. Otherwise, it would seem we all fit the visual stereotype I think. But feel free to disagree with me on this point ;)

    I am curious about this last point and other women's thoughts
  • yeah, i am one of them. we are like dinosaurs....
    what can I say as an INTJ woman... I have days when I wonder if it's a curse or a blessing... coz we are so misunderstood. Sometimes I talk to men and they can't stand me being so rational and logical and call me names... yeah, but that's life... And at end of the day I am proud to be INTJ.
  • Actually, I recently saw an article that indicates a mere 0.005% of the entire population are both INTj and female. A rare breed are we,
    and rarer still is it to find another of our kind in a lifetime. Ironically, this happened to me just this morning, and it was such a surreal event
    that I find myself still shaken in it's wake.
    If other INTj's are like myself (and new-found kindred), you most likely find it hard to relate to other women, and almost put them in a separate class from yourself. So, imagine my surprise when I met this girl, who is the same age, and whose pattern of thought and off-beat humor were so in keeping with my own, that for a moment, it was as if I was talking to myself.
    All I know is, I hope we get to meet again.
  • I love the rarity factor...but I have a hard time feeling desirable around my male peers...they think i'm a bitchy, aloof, stuck-up smarty-pants etc...all those great stereotypes that all come with the outsider's perception of the INTJ. Anyone else have this problem?? Moreover, has anyone overcome this issue?
    • I've had the problem my whole life. I'm 52 and over the years I have projected more of the warm, loving kind person I am on the inside to my outside. I also enjoy girly clothes, so my appearance is very feminine. This makes me more approachable so my exterior does not seem so cold, but that only helps a little. Men are incredibly intimidated by the emotional strength, logic and independence of the INTJ woman. It is difficult to find a man who doesn't feel threatened. Think about it. Here is this person who is MORE of everything they are supposed to be as a man, and it's packaged in a woman's body and they can't deal. Particularly if the woman is pretty, like I am. I have had men feel "tricked" because my appearance and personality seem to be such a contrast. I think we need to look for men with a lot of self-confidence, and that is not always easy. Sometimes the arrogant guy might seem confident, but he's weak and insecure inside. Sometimes the more quiet, unassuming guy is the confident one and we miss it. Again, it's the packaging that tricks us.

      I was married for 17 years to a man with whom I constantly had to play down all my awesome INTJ strengths, and it really caused me a lot of pain. Not worth it. You gotta be who you are.
      • Dee
        Dee
        offline 0
        I just found this site, so Hi to all of you!!

        I read most of the posts on this forum, and as Susan's post resonates a lot with me, I'll start off by responding to her.

        I too project a warm, kind, approachable personality and love feminine clothes. I'm in my 40's, and have given up on dating because men find me threatening once they get to know me. I've had the same thing happen over and over again, in my dating days (20 s and 30 s) that I just got exhausted and said "that's it".

        Being an INTJ is a mixed blessing. I'm never bored. Even if I find myself without something to read, I've got lots in my head to keep me occupied - plans, Physics / Math problems, entire movements of Mozart concerti, etc. (I'm a Physics faculty member whose main hobby is classical music. )

        Anyway, I'm glad I found a Tribe of basically like-minded people. :)
  • I don't think that we are really all that rare; I think that a lot of women have been socialized out of this personality type and so either lie on their responses to the test or have so quashed their nature that they really believe that they are something else. It kind of sucks most of the time to be INTJ, it certainly doesn't make women very popular, does it? But hey, those of us who have persisted in being who we truly are should be especially proud of it.
  • Hi All,

    I've also been typed as an INTJ. I can't say for sure if I'm really an INTJ based upon what Vicky has mentioned.

    I've gone through and analyzed the whole INTJ rarity to include reading up on Carl Jung etc. I do seem to fit the description, although I would honestly prefer to be typed differently- It would make my life much easier. I came from a very impoverished background. I currently work as a scientist (biochem), and upon finding out that INTJ's are also classified as scientists I had to chuckle. I'm also hispanic. which makes it even harder for me, since you don't see many female minorities in labs. I tend to clash with some women and I think it's because they don't understand me. I'm liked by my supervisors but not all female colleagues. I think they mistake my confidence as arrogance. I've also gotten remarks where people think I'm working against them- (females), not going with the flow. This is due to the fact that I want to make sure everything flows smoothly-- I like getting it right the first time. I also judge whether people I work with have any sound reasoning or merit based on my interactions with them. I can easily tell if they know what they are talking about.

    It's hard for me to let people know that I'm really helping out, since they can't seem to understand where I'm going with my thoughts. Actually, sometimes I just want to tell people how much of an idiot they are and how they don't understand. I often wish they could get a glimpse of the thoughts I have to kinda get a sense of my reasoning. I despise gossipers in the office. I think they are filthy when they spread lies about people. It seems to me since they can't cut it, they want to bring people down.. I can spot games/insecurities between colleagues and don't seem to have the patience for it. I think If I could just work by myself it would be so much better, I wouldn't have to deal with any of this nonsense. I don't understand people's motivations sometimes and If I could I would really enjoy taking coursework in experimental psychology. Even though I'm not in the psychology field, I understand the importance of making relationships work, so you'll find I also have a subscription to Psychology Today.

    I also got a chance to read if INTJ's are bored easily with their jobs discussion. I am finding that my job which use to challenge me is no longer challenging. I feel the need to go on and get my PhD but what good would that do when it wouldn't become as challenging anymore once I'm specialized in a particular field. Thus, I'm struggling to find a balance. It could be that I've been out of school for quite some time now that I have forgotten how happy I used to be in academia. People are a lot nicer, and don't feel as threatened by me. I'm allowed to be me without offending people. They usually don't care. They like overachievers. As I have been in my career field for quite a few years it has started to become harder to mask my natural tendencies. Since I grew up in the ghetto, i can act ghetto, and hence people feel less threatened by me. It's just becoming more difficult as I get older to dress like J-Lo. So can you imagine the situation now. I'm sort of a weirdo. Like I mentioned above, it would have been nicer if I had been a "caregiver" like my sister who is in the medical field. Her life seems more do-able and more fulfilling.

    I've also started working on the other aspects that are also important; self-realization or self-actualization. Although I seem pretty rigid by what I described above- I hide my persona from people and can become that agreeable, likable individual. It sucks though, but I'm sure other types are taking the initiative and doing the same.
    • Not that you need my approval, but nothing in here hits my radar that you may be mis-typed. FWIW.

      What I do know is that INTJs have
      1) a need for competence
      2) a love of learning

      Once competence has been achieved in a given area, they like to find new areas of competence to master. Coupled with their love of learning, academia is often a very comfortable home for them.

      I imagine I detect hunger in you to expand and grow, and I would encourage you to turn up the dial on that, as it is typically a sign of life.

      Hope these thoughts support you,
      -Vicky Jo :-)
      PS: Someday I'll have to clarify around the whole boredom thing. Suffice it to say that INTJs are rarely bored when they are on track toward a goal. It is when the goal has been surpassed and a new goal has not been identified that boredom might arise. This is a vastly different "boredom" from someone who identifies a goal and then doesn't bother to complete it, which verges on unimaginable with INTJs. :-)
      • Thanks for your supportive thoughts...

        I was hoping you would tell me otherwise, and perhaps I was mis-typed. I'm fine with being an INTJ, it's just a challenge when working with other personalities, since they usually don't understand.

        Your absolutely correct in saying that you detect hunger in me to expand and grow. This is true. I'm finding that I'm growing in trying to understand what Jung calls individuation and achieving this, to include spirituality and meditation, and also my passion (science).

        Side Note: I do admire Jung, because out of many scientist in psychology, he at least was one of the most courageous in my opinion to touch on topics that have no way of being proven, like that of the acausal connecting principle. Yes, it can seem a little insane. But who else is going to approach this. It still needs to be defined, and at least he was able to try and make some sense of it.

        For INTJs who advocate staying true to yourself and your type bravo. I have found over time if I was to stay completely true to my type in working relationships with people, I would hardly accomplish everything I have set out to do. I have found that over time masking is way more efficient than not. I get what I need a lot faster. I don't believe in games, so I avoid them, but I also understand that I can't go against the grain all the time with things that don't make any sense. I would never accomplish the goals I set up. I understand that CJ has written about possibly developing a neurosis when you start acting out of your true personality type. Trying to fit into being someone else's normal, in turn makes you unnatural and a bit neurotic. Yet, ,my approach is that I understand that I have no choice but to in order to accomplish my goals. In my personal life, I'm definitely an INTJ, in my professional working life, I have to change it up. I was upset the other day when I read that I plan my leisurely activities, because I understand the importance of them in my life, and I need to allocate time for hobbies. But at the same time, I think- really, wow. I do this all the time. I started to think how pathetic. Sometimes I wonder why my brain is hard-wired like this. Our goal is competence and efficiency, yet our personalities are not designed to reach these goals unless we can work well with people.

        I do believe that INTJ men have it a lot easier than women. There a little more acceptable in their approach because people's perceptions allow for it. What they don't like about me is that they can't fit me into a box. I look extroverted on the outside, yet I'm not. I can look playful and bubbly to some, yet people have mentioned I look upset or bored. I find that it's more than the personality types. I find that it has to do a lot with people who think the world revolves around them. If I don't show a little concern or sensitivity to some, it causes more chaos in my life. I believe it's important to mask to a certain extent. If you can distinguish the difference, and acknowledge why you are doing this, then you have less problems. For example, one day a co-worker said "your going to love me for....", and I looked at her and said, "no, I will never love you". This is turn hurt her feelings. Now it is a problem. If I had just played it off, then I wouldn't have to deal with her feeling bad. I was just being my honest self, but her little feelings where hurt. And if someone told me this, I could care less, and take it as a joke, unless I really did love them and was in a relationship.

        Anyways, I'm going off on a tangent. I feel I'm going to be constantly frustrated with different individuals. I've come to accept this. I just wish sometimes people would do the same. If they accept you for who you are. I often wonder why the need to control someones natural expression. The selfishness is uncalled for. It's easier in knowing you understand that they don't understand, so you just have to let it go.

        So I am currently studying up for the GRE. My family and friends know that I'm the happiest when I'm in school and have always told me I need to go back. I was feeling stagnant and upset with my current job. It's because I've never had another scientist come down on me and squelch the creative process I love about science in formulating new ideas. At least I can have 5 years in graduate school to make my own decisions and calls regarding my own experiments, and another 5 as a post-doc to do the same. I understand it centers around the funding, but I have to be optimistic that some of my plans will go through, and not all the creative process put into it will be hindered. The hardest part for me will be getting into a program. After that it's going to be a piece of cake- because I'll constantly be challenged with my work (or at least I hope so) :-)

        Does anyone know of any areas of psychology that help understand this sort of stuff - besides the types? Or useful books?
        • Marie,

          I need to be crystal clear and say that I did not say you definitely had INTJ preferences... I merely said that nothing indicated to me that INTJ preferences did NOT fit you. That's a critical distinction.

          And it still feels the same to me after reading this latest from you.

          I simply need to treat this cautiously, because it's inappropriate and unethical to type someone via a few messages over the internet. So please take what I say with a grain of salt in that respect. :-)

          It may interest you to learn that a group of type experts believe that C.G. Jung also had INTJ preferences, and have presented tons of evidence for it -- including a man Jung corresponded with for a number of years, who says Jung told him straight to his face that they were the same type pattern (INTJ). So you might wish to consider Jung a model for your spiritual inquiries (which I would relate to your introverted intuition).

          You may or may not be aware of the publication of "The Red Book" last Fall. It's kind of a big deal in the Psychology world. It's the journal where Jung captured his work in active imagination, which laid the groundwork for all his later psychological theories. Right now it's making the rounds of museums in North America -- it's been to the Rubin Museum in New York City, and the Hammer Museum in Los Angeles. I don't know where it is now -- I think it was slated for Chicago next.

          Some Jungians posited that the reason Jung called it the "red" book (and it is a very big, very RED book) is because Jung affiliated the color Red with the Feeling function, and this connoted his ongoing struggle with the Feeling function. The "Red Book" is a chronicle of Jung grappling with his Feeling problem.

          I bring this up because I read in your message that you, too, struggle with the Feeling function (as does my INTJ husband and every other INTJ I know).

          A woman who no doubt preferred the Feeling function once said of Jung that she thought he was a brilliant analyst AND she found him insensitive to other people, sometimes making fun of them and disparaging them. She found this appalling. With extraverted Feeling (considering others) being deep in the shadow for INTJs, this lack of sensitivity can create ongoing relationship problems and related difficulties for people with this pattern.

          It's one thing to be accepted for who we are, and another thing entirely to individuate and become fully realized. Jung wrote, "So often problems in life are perceived to be an external crisis, when really they are about growing beyond our current level of consciousness. The individual at the center of the crisis actually is ripe for more awareness. The aim of life (is) to realize the whole range of one's capacities."

          I see it as a paradox.

          Type is not a set of 16 boxes we are all reduced to -- no, type describes 8 forms of consciousness we access in different ways. The forms of consciousness we prefer to access determines much about the course of our lives and what and who we gravitate toward. This is self-evident.

          And yet there is something innate within us longing to be whole -- this is the part of our psyche that continually puts us into challenging situations that require us to develop the forms of consciousness we are inadequate with, encouraging us to grow. Our psyche never gives up on us!

          I appreciate you may be looking for something "else" to teach you more about yourself, and I submit to you that type is a bubbling fountain that never stops giving once you understand it. I've been immersed in the topic myself for 16 years now with no end in sight -- and nearly everyday I learn something new using this framework.

          Pardon the shameless promotion as I alert you to a new online product I just completed and released last week -- I still haven't gotten my promotional materials in place for it on the website yet. It's titled "Can You Spot It?: Recognizing the Eight Cognitive Processes," and it explores these eight forms of consciousness and teaches how to detect them in the world around us. It has helped several people identify or confirm their best-fit pattern, and it elevates the topic of type from being about ways to pigeonhole to exploring levels of consciousness. I suspect that it can teach you more about yourself and deepen your understanding of type than anything else you might encounter at this point in your development.

          The website may be found at www.VirtualTypeWorkshops.com

          There's a free ten-minute video on introversion and extraversion to whet your interest, and you receive the 20-minute version of that presentation as a bonus when you sign up for my mailing list. I invite you to check it out and don't walk away from type too soon with the mistaken belief that you've mastered that topic.

          Type was and always is an underlying foundation to everything Jung explored psychologically. If it was good enough for him (one of the founding fathers of psychology in our world today), then I have a hunch it's good enough for you too. :-)

          I hope this message speaks to you.

          -Vicky Jo :-)
          • Vicky,

            Wow, you really know your stuff. I appreciate all your help in this matter. I should have also been more clear about stating I understood what you were getting at with the INTJ preferences. I know for sure that nothing is 100%, it is only suggestive. And yes, I'm taking it with a grain of salt. I understand your reasoning.

            I had also read that Jung had some INTJ preferences, and a little bit about his history. I was interested in purchasing The Red Book. I had no idea he named it The Red Book because he affiliated red with the feeling function.

            I was a little surprised to read this. ---> Side Note: I have been working on becoming more "whole", etc. and I'm taking art classes- painting to explore the feeling side. My sister recently requested that I paint something for her. Her only demand was the painting be red. I started but could not for the life of me paint in red. I rarely use the color red in my paintings. I recall telling my art teacher it's too much of a color for me to handle.. "i can't do it, and do other artists have this problem?" So now, I've put her painting to the side. I figured when I was ready for red I would do it. This is funny, she may have to wait for quite some time before I get around to it.

            I believe I have issues with the feeling function, but I understand the need for consideration. I never put anyone down, in fact I argue against this. There is no reason for this. I was a little surprised to read that he was sometimes inconsiderate towards others. I know he had issues with females and did not consider them on the same level or have respect for them. It was really surprising to read, since you could argue that he really makes no sense in that regard... and throw everything he came up with out the window. Yet, I still think despite this, he still had pretty good ideas about other areas of development.

            Also since I have a child, I have a better handle on the feeling side than if I had not had a child. There is something about giving birth, and nursing a baby that makes you think a little more differently about the world and really starts opening up your feeling side more. Although, it's still not quite as developed as a "feeling" person's side, I still feel that I have some kinda feeling, despite the way it may come out sometimes. I'm not a stone, and despite what others may think sometimes, my feelings also get hurt if the person means something to me. Like rejection is not cool. It's hard to describe. My only gripe at this time is that this process of becoming whole seems to come easier to others, while I treat this more as an experiment of some sort. Something I have to master and overcome.

            I'll check out your site.. it sounds interesting.

            Marie
            • Running through -- love your post -- want to zoom in for two quick comments.

              One is that INTJs are not without Feelings -- in fact, they can be extraordinary at *valuing*, which is introverted (not extraverted) Feeling.

              Jung delivered an amazing diatribe in college against scientists using animals to experiment on, and insisted that any scientific breakthroughs that resulted from such an abomination were worthless. That's a pretty strong feeling judgment.

              I also know that my INTJ husband is a gentleman at heart, and this is said to be one of the hallmarks of introverted Feeling -- it is called "a hidden gentlemanliness." However, that is not the same as *privileging* another person's feelings over one's own, and that's the kind of "considering" that extraverted Feeling excels at.

              Mind you, it's not that you can't or don't use extraverted Feeling -- it's just that it's far from consciousness for you, and it's tricky. It tricks you; you trick others with it, it's just tricky tricky tricky for people with INTJ preferences. Being a mother, you may have some advantages -- I can't say. Even so, I daresay you've been accused of being "insensitive" and "not caring about" somebody's feelings somewhere along the way.

              My Virtual Type Workshop product explains the differences between the two Feeling functions in a lot of detail, alongside visuals and video to support the learning, because I've discovered it's too difficult to explain with only words. We just don't "get it" as well via that means (words), especially when one is a visual learner, which all IN_Js seem to be. :-/

              As far as Jung being misogynistic -- it's hard to say. He encouraged a lot of women to become analysts, including his own wife (who delivered a few lectures from the podium), and he seems to have supported their development and been committed to their success. Many of them left sizeable marks on the field of psychology (Marie-Louise von Franz among them, who also had INTJ preferences I believe. She collaborated with him for 30 years).

              It's true that he had a 20-year-long affair with Toni Wolf right under his wife's nose, and I have a hard time forgiving him for that. However, Emma Jung said in later years that what he gave Toni took nothing away from her, which I find a remarkable admission.

              In "The Red Book" is an amazing painting of three snakes entwined, which is thought to represent Jung's relationship with these two women, and how the unconscious was all snarled up between them. His affair was right out in the open (I gotta give him credit for that), and he once said to an analysand, "I hope you don't think this is how you're supposed to live your life" (or something to that effect). So it's not like he was proud of himself and claiming bragging rights. He knew the Feeling area of his life was a tangled mess.

              He was also one of the first psychologists to tackle gender psychology, and we're still unpacking what he was trying to tell us about that aspect of life.

              Suffice it to say that he was human, and he had tangled, messy relationships (much as we all do), and the more time we waste judging him, the less time we devote to working on ourselves and cleaning up our own act.

              Personally, I've decided to embrace his remarkable concepts and appreciate the value in them (and appreciate the heroic acts of introverted iNtuiting that he engaged in), and give up my personal grudges against him regarding his incompetence with the Feeling function. It's just easier.

              FWIW.

              Gotta run,
              -Vicky Jo :-)
              PS: It's not true that some people have it easier -- they just struggle with different things than you do. We even have diversity around our problems! Don't be deceived by appearances or your own projections. As Plato said, "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."
              • Vicky,

                Again, your so are so knowledgeable about this subject matter. I'm envious of your INTJ husband who has all this wealth of information at his disposal. I'm sure he appreciates your insights very much and probably praises you for understanding the functions in more detail than most.

                I also have to mention, that I agree with you about Jung. I wouldn't have progressed as far as I have in my development if it wasn't for his work. Out of all the psychologist I admire him most. Especially when it concerns the archetypes and the dreams I've been having lately. Every time I'm working on certain aspects of my life, I tend to have archetype dreams. I had a dream the other day with at least 4 of them - the child, my animus, an old woman, and an old man. It was an interesting dream.

                I'm still a little confused about it... The dream was positive, in that I was driving a vehicle, and the toddler was next to me. The baby who I use to see in my dreams has grown and is now a toddler. We were headed somewhere, and we stopped to see an old woman. I didn't recognize her and she was dead and laying on a mattress with a small amount of blood surrounding her. Somewhere in the confusion I saw a bloody knife. After seeing the old woman dead, the toddler was comforting me, and we left in the vehicle again. This time I drove past my animus playing chess with an old man at a university. I like the old man, but felt a little timid regarding the younger man who I've come to believe is my animus. I wanted to approach them, but felt they were working out a problem regarding me. I felt the older man was more on my side, and the younger man gave me a look he used to give me all the time when I knew him. I never quite figured out what that particular look meant, so it left me a little rattled [by the way my animus is also an INTJ in real life].... At that point, I made a U-turn and headed in another direction.

                These are my dreams. I do wish sometimes the one person I would like to speak to regarding my dreams would be Jung. I know he would give me a really good idea as to what could be going on. I've learned a lot about myself thanks to him. I've even had some synchronicity in my life, and I know he would most certainly appreciate those events.

                So like you, I have a great appreciation for Jung, and he is also a part of some of the art work I have done. I also understand that people don't have it "easier" than I do. I just like to say it. I know everyone has their own battles they have to fight. Most of the time it has nothing to do with you. We are all working out our own problems whatever they may be. I know from experience though, that I really need to become more knowledgeable regarding human interactions and making sense of them. If not, i'm fine with that too--- to a certain point.

                I was also able to see the introverted and extroverted functions segment on your website. I enjoyed it. I can understand your frustrations now when people loosely throw around what it means to be introverted and extroverted.
                • Marie,

                  My husband and I met through a common interest in Jung and psychological types, so it informs a large percentage of our conversations as we undertake this journey through life together.

                  Your dream was very interesting, and what fun to interpret!

                  I noticed I was unsure about claiming one as your animus -- for very specific typological reasons.

                  If you want to have some seeerious fun with your dreams, it can be hugely rewarding to *type* the consciousnesses that each of your dream figures represents.

                  Type goes waaay beyond introversion and extraversion of course -- we're talking about the introverted and extraverted forms of all 8 of the functions: Feeling, Sensation, Thinking, iNtuition. When we invoke the attitudes, we begin to encounter the depth and richness of type.

                  Any time you have a figure in a dream (or in a movie), it represents a singular form of human-like consciousness. And... if it has a human-like consciousness, it can be typed.

                  Mind you, I don't mean typed with a four-letter code, as people are fond of doing -- no, I mean typed with a single function-attitude (i.e., extraverted Feeling -- such as, "the giant in my dream represents extraverted Feeling).

                  My teacher, John Beebe, devotes a great deal of time as a Jungian analyst "typing" people's dreams, and even movies, in this way, in order to derive greater meaning from them. (It goes without saying that if you don't know how to identify the processes easily, you won't be able to engage in this activity effectively, which is why I poured a year of my life into creating my product. :-D)

                  The reason I queried your "animus" figure is because he doesn't seem to embody extraverted Sensation, which is rightly the animus for the INTJ type pattern, according to the model my mentor uses.

                  You begin to see how complex and fascinating this gets. :-D

                  Gotta run,

                  -Vicky Jo
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Yes, after reading up some more on archetypes and typing, I have to agree with you about the man I called my animus. My gut instinct when I started to write was that he was a shadow, but decided otherwise and put him down as my animus. Yesterday, and today I've been really looking more into the archetypes and the 8 functions. Talk about confusing. I've been trying to take short-cuts and figuring this out in a matter of hours, but it's impossible. There are no short-cuts as represented by the dream I had earlier today upon napping.

                    After reading so much today, I fell asleep and the dream began with me in a wheelchair. There was an older woman pushing me. We were at a corner of a street waiting for the Doctor. He parked his van (one of those old hippie vans from the 60's). I got up and opened the passenger door and got in. As I sat down I noticed he covered his side of the van with yellow and light blue blankets. He had a beard and glasses, and seemed really mellow almost hippie like. I looked in the back and saw 3 other individuals sitting in each of the rows. I started talking to the doctor and asked him about himself. He said he was a PhD and MD. Then the girl in the first row (obnoxiously) started to tease him and put him down. I was immediately upset with her and called them out for making fun of him. I told the group you need to stop, and they obviously seem jealous of his accomplishments. I then asked the Dr. what he has his PhD in and I heard a mumble and couldn't make it out. As we are driving I ask him where are we heading. He says we are going to see another doctor.

                    We arrive at this place, and enter a home. We proceed to go downstairs this building. This time he's leading the way, and there is this little girl following behind me (Alice in Wonderland look-alike). It's almost like a maze. The stairs just keep leading down. Some are bright and colorful, and others are dark and dismal, almost like a dungeon. At one point I see 2 rats come out of a door (plastic covering) and a woman is wrapping something and quickly heads out the same door. At this point the hippie doctor seems to disappear. That's when I hear this obnoxious little girl behind me speaking again. I quickly catch up to the doctor. We are in this room, and he figured out how to get to the second floor. He's actually waiting for me. I want to catch up to him, and I know how he climbed his way up, but find it will take to much effort to do it his way. So I climb a really pretty blue ladder that doesn't have anything in which it's supported on. I take the first step. I realize this is tough, but I'm not giving up. I can see he's reading a piece of paper. I keep trying. Meanwhile I see women chatting it up as if they do not see me. There socializing and having a good time drinking wine. I still keep looking at him, pulling myself up further and finally I wake up.

                    Basically, I like the fact that I have access like this to my unconscious. I'm no longer afraid to take leaps in there. I like that I have overcome a lot these last 2 years in which I really dealt with my shadow sides. (some really serious stuff). All the ugliness that is part of who you are. I'll always have a shadow, and I'm quite alright with this.

                    I guess what I can tell is that my unconscious is so much more knowledgeable than I am when making sense of these archetypes. I just can't figure them out. Basically, I know I can't take any short-cuts to understand the individuation process. This time I think the hippie guy is my animus, suggesting to me that I really need not to take short-cuts but need to start reading to get to where I want to go to catch up to him. It's also frustrating, because I have other goals I'm currently working on, and this process is also interfering with those goals. I'm not managing my time wisely. But I also understand I won't completely ever reach the level of self or wholeness which is by far more important than anything else we ever achieve if I don't understand this process.

                    Do you have dreams about the archetypes? Does your husband? If you do, what level have you made it to or do you dream about most often? I know this is a process. I was just curious since both of you met through a common interest in Jung and types. How cool to meet someone who enjoys speaking and learning about the same things. People that I have met don't really care about this sort of stuff. I find it fascinating though. I wish I could find someone who shares the same passions in learning.
      • Hi Vicky Jo,

        My name is Nichaud. First of all I need to say I am typing on my phone and the letter "I" when used singularly only comes up lower case unless I manually change it each time, so after this I will be only using lower case I's when referring to myself. It is too time consuming to keep beaming it.

        For all my life i have felt like an outsider. Always a loner even though i had many friends. I simply chose not to hang out with them, they didn't seem like my kind of fun. I liked to read and learn new things and display how smart i was. My mother never and still doesn't understand me. She calls me cold hearted. Im really not like that though, i just have a hard time trying to explain my feelings, if not for the fact i like to keep my feelings private unless i know the person i am expressing my feelings to will understand. My mother doesn't. I think i must be like my dad, maybe, Im not sure.

        Anyway, i have taken the MBTI many times, maybe about 10 times. 10 percent of the time it came up INFJ, but the rest, INTJ. After reading the profiles for each, many times, i have come to the conclusion that my best fit is an INTJ. It just makes so much sense to me! The biggest things for me is for others around me to be competent, otherwise i don't really like to be with them, which is a very arrogant mindset, i know.

        The reason i replied to your post is because you make sense to me. I try to find as much information about INTJ as i can because i believe tilt is my personality. The more i know about it, the better i can understand myself. That i what i want from everything, to understand things, myself included.

        My dream is to become a school teacher, because i believe in knowledge and learning so much. I am so passionate about it! I also want to find a suitable boyfriend that will understand these qualities and appreciate them. As i read through your posts i think to myself how well written and structured they are, i really admire that, no condescension here though.

        Im 23 and i have my whole life ahead of me. I think i just need to have some direction. Can you please tell me what you think?

        Thank you,

        Nichaud
  • well im an intj and yes im a women and deffinitly are we rare ive never met someone who understood me i always felt when i was growing up like an old soul like i ripened before all the other fruit trying to fit in but never being able to move my lips when i wanted to... to afraid .i cant explain these feellings but that right there tell you im an INTJ trying to analyze my feelings and put them in a little box where i dont have to worry about them dont have to feel them ...... im still young and trying to figure it all out why im different ,where im going, what am i even doing really i just think way to much about everything my mind is racing..... i think i try so hard to see everything is "real" and there are no fairy tales because i dont want to see the scared little girl inside me that i left back in third grade sitting in a classroom all by herself
    • Yes, as an INTJ i never felt like I fit in, especially with other women. I've always been one to hang out with the guys.

      But I'm an INTJ, so I don't care what other people think. When I was younger, I figured I had to be true to myself and if I had no friends, that's better than trying to fit in among people who don't understand me. Luckily, I have met other INTJ women over the years, my best friend, a friend in grad school. There seem to be some INTJs among musicians and other artistic types, who I gravitate toward.

      And INTJs have certain strengths - for me it's my planning, creativitty, and organization skills - which employers appreciate and value (even though we have a "quirky" personality, not the social type, etc., so they don't expect these things of us). At least that's rewarding. Still looking for a boyfriend, though, who will value me for my INTJ qualities.
  • I am a married INTJ female. My husband is very unhappy with my lack of affection and attention towards him. Please tell me I am not the only one who deals with this. I don't think I can change. We have been married 10 yrs. I am extremely independent and I get irritated with people who are needy. I have a very successful career. I 'come out of my shell' at work to get the job done. I like silence a lot. It's hard to be married to me. :(
    • I don't think I could ever be happy married. I need my space too much. I'm just not wifey. Every relationship seems to be about finding a balance of give and take though. If you really do have affection for your husband, maybe trying to show it a little bit more often than necessarily comes naturally to you will facilitate a better relationship between the two of you. If he's happy that you seem to appreciate him and demonstrate affection, he will be more understanding when you say that you need silence. Anyone who thinks living with someone else is easy is so wrong!
      • Thank you for your thoughts on this. We also have two kids. It's pretty safe to say that I'm maxed out at the moment in terms of interacting with people from sun up to sun down...day in, day out. I really want to figure this out and stay married so I appreciate your feedback. I feel like if I go to a random marriage counselor, he/she will give me the usual drill of...well, just "do" it and become more outgoing/affectionate/talkative/romantic/, etc. I've tried that for the past 10 years and it lasts for about a week at which point I feel like I'm being fake.
        • Two thoughts for you:

          1) my INTJ husband is pretty affectionate overall -- I suggest you pose the question to him directly. His site is www.INTJ.org
          He is 59, and probably will have some wisdom to offer you.

          2) don't go to a marriage counselor -- find a relationship *coach* instead -- very different energy, and the coach will be devoted to making you both "right" in the relationship. There are many good coaches out there, and I'll recommend ORSC-trained coaches. Let me know if you'd like to post an "ad" for any coaches to get in touch with you to pursue the possibility of working together. Many of them work on the phone, so geography is no barrier.

          -Vicky Jo :-)
    • I was married for 17 years to a man who was not right for me and I was not right for him. I tried to be someone different, which was painful, but it still didn't work. My former husband was a large black hole of neediness and swirling emotions and he exhausted me. I was his wife, his mother, his nursemaid and I loved him with all my heart, but he sucked me dry. Plus I lost respect for him because he was so weak, and we INTJ need to respect our men. He couldn't handle me. So when you say it is hard to be married to you, I think you should rephrase it to say it is hard for HIM to be married to you. In my case, my husband began to verbally and emotionally abuse me and I left. Best thing I ever did. I've never been happier. That sounds harsh, but it is the truth.
  • I only recently discovered that I am an INTJ. I've known that I'm a woman for a while now. :) I am not interested in making friends/opening up with the vast majority of people that I meet, but with the people I do connect with, I tend to take a long time getting to know them and form a gradual natural friendship that lasts. I only have a couple true, true friends. I do find that in general I get along with men better than women, but that's not a rule. I used to think that I couldn't be good friends with a woman, but I realized I was judging them based on the fact that they were female, and I had not had good experiences with women. I have only recently realized the value of female friends! You just have to find the right ones.
  • I am an INTJ and and artist and a fundamentalist christian. Also single as you can imagine but still hoping to find a mate despite the numbers. Are there any other female INTJ's that are Christian? If so, are you married and what is the personality type of your mate?
  • j
    j
    offline 0
    Checking in. INTJ. And yes, often misunderstood and/or incorrect assumptions are foisted my way. No, I rarely correct them--depends on the relationship and/or the egregious nature of the categorization.

    I recently met another INTJ woman and found her brash, egotistical and exhausting. It was during a job interview. I presume that she is currently very unhappy and my strong reaction to her is based on seeing my own shortcomings magnified. Nothing ickier that being confronted with your own shadow. I was on best behavior for at least a week.
    • j
      j
      offline 0
      Also, on the relationship front: I read somewhere about marriage being a commitment to "act loving" rather than to "feel loving" since feelings come and go, but you can commit to an action. I've tried, with varying degrees of success, to incorporate that into my own relationships. Seems to be effective. I have not married, since I've yet to meet anyone who can improve on being alone, but if I do I think a commitment to action rather than feeling makes the most sense.
  • You know, I had no idea up until now that we were 'rare'. I knew I was an INTJ as I took this quiz a couple months back, but it's sort of nice to know we're rare.
    • I also just found out a couple months ago that I was an INTJ personality type. So of course after reading the decription I was so relieved that there was an explaination for the reason I am the way I am...as I have always felt different, but never had something in black and white to explain it or to let others read so that I didn't always have to explain myself to my family, co-workers, etc..that gets so monotonous. Of course ever since finding out my personality, I have researched and taught myself as much as I can and am continuing to do so. As I mentioned, I was relieved, but at the same time I am thinking "Wow, so its confirmed...people think I am an asshole". But in all reality I am truely liked by all my co-workers, but I suppose thats because I have the ability to pretend! The truth is the truth huh? haha. I am nice to most and considerate of others, I speak to people and if I haven't seen them in a while I ask how they have been, but really I guess I don't care, more of a social norm that I have adapted to I guess. I take a huge amount of pride in who I am and what I believe in, I just try not to voice that as much as I would like to, which I am sure is annoying to most. I am just glad I found this website to share like minded intelligence and hopefully we can gain knowledge from each other that can better prepare us for what is ahead! In my case, grad school and from there who knows...as I never will be satisfied unless I am learning and growing intellectually.
  • I am a 29 year old recently married INTJ female.

    Yes we are rare and I often feel that no one understands/gets me, especially my girl friends. They get upset cause Im bad about keeping in touch. Apparently they all call each other and discuss day to day life and I do not. I figure I'll catch up with them when I see them, I dont really like chatting on the phone much, I know what your up too from facebook. My Mom gets upset with me for the same reason. I think they are slowly just starting to get thats how I am, its not that I dont care about them.

    Im a typical girl in appearance (hair, clothes, makeup etc) but tend to be more traditionaly masculine mentally. Im not emotional and dont get/show excitment, which bothers some people. Im also pretty bad at small talk . Most girls love talking when they get their hair done and I always kinda struggle with it. I also prefer to stay home most nights over going out into social situations.

    In my marriage I think its funny because traditional male and female roles tend to be reversed, hes an ENFP.
  • For starters, my basic observations and theories:

    I am most definitely an INTJ.
    It's rarity and my femaleness cause it to be brought into question alot but, it is so.

    I also end to write wordy posts.
    I also am more language and philosophy even artistically inclined.
    I am able to follow social rules maybe a little more easily than could be definitively/extremely INTJ.
    I express mself emotionally and also paltitudinally as well as hyperbolically.

    So...my point is this: I think there are more INTJ females than are recognized.
    I think that there are more mistyped males than females, partly because the cliche INTJ is also very cliche 'laconic male nerd'.

    Personally, my MBTI expresses it's self more in my thought processes,executions and gifts.
    Socially and superficially I may seem INTP or INFJ.
    On meeting me, One may assume me to be E.
    On seeing me working, with children, which is my job, One might assume more 'F' of me, especially within presumptions about my gender >:(

    I have been tested professionally.
    I have taken many individual tests.
    I have had family/friends test 'as me' and they get the result of 'INFJ' because, well, they want to see me that way.
  • Thank you all for sharing and having this forum for us to share our individual experiences. I agree with everyone's experience, especially the seeming inability to relate well with others outside the select number of close friends. I use to wonder what was wrong with me and why I wasn't "normal." It's tough being INTJ, honestly. I feel isolated oftentimes when I'm not doing what 'everyone else is doing.' If we're so rare, it's that much harder to find others like us--what a disconnecting concept. I'm 28 and I wonder if I really will find a guy who will be a compatible match. Right now, I don't see myself getting married or having children. I'm more focused on figuring out my career so I wonder if my relationships will be second to that. I want to change careers from education, but still don't know what I will be competent at. This latter issue bothers more than anything else right now.
  • Ely
    Ely
    offline 0
    I tend to think exploring our personality is a process of understanding ourselves a little better, and perhaps, using that understanding to improve ourselves for more than a little better.

    To 'justify' my presence here - because INTJs just itch for that - I am an INTJ; as assessed by a certified MBTI practitioner.

    Many thanks to Vicky for the link to INTJ.org. I haven't explored the site completely, but I really like the maturity and sensibility of the content.

    Concerning the 'rarity' factor, I used to find that a little more than uncomfortable. I think it natural. No matter what type you are, I believe we all strive to 'fit' in with our society - at the very least, achieve some sort of human connection.

    Something that I haven't seen often, is the mention of INTJ humour. I've had some belly bursting dialogue with posters over at INTJForums. Ours (if I can so claim that plural), is a rather dry wit; sometimes sharp enough to draw blood, but of course, unintentional (at least I hope).

    Something not so funny is the INTJ academic drive. It's driving me currently nutty, because said drive is driving me towards applying for post graduate medicine. Although, I personally get a kick out of working in field(s) that don't play to my dominant function.

    Yay for INTJ non-conformity!
  • The rarity of intj in of itself is interesting. My boyfriend is one and my best friend (girl) is also one. We all live together at the moment, and have a very easy time doing so. I'm also a mother, it was very challenging at first to meet the needs of a kid, but I've forced myself to meet those challenges and am happy I did so. Although, being a mother was never part of my plan to begin with. Being an intj female is more difficult I think, for all the reasons the others have posted here. I've learned to stay away from other girls for the most part because of it. Most guys can't handle me in a relationship, cause my confidence and independence is too high. Family, especially my mother, expect more emotions and sincerity out of me. The rational and logic that drives us, for the most part keeps us from being able to meet these expectations, and it doesn't bother me one bit. I abhor drama, and I see life without my perception, is basically drama. Now basically, in the end tell everyone to eat it if they can't handle me, and move on. No wonder we are creatures of more solitude than social bugs. I think if people were more accepting and tolerant of differences we impose, we would be more social. I was just part of social gathering comprised of 90 percent intj's which involved about 10 people. It was awesome! My take on the situation? Everybody needs to lighten up, and just enjoy life.
  • Pa
    Pa
    offline 0
    Here, and INTJ woman too.

    My first MBTI test was ISTJ years ago. And I too test as INTJ repeatedly now. I also find that I'm not the same person as I used to be, I'm more outspoken now, and have a better understanding of myself and others now, esp with expression of emotions/feelings.

    INTJ women in here are not alone. I cannot stand being around too much women as well. Too much estrogen in one room, seriously. You can understand this when you have too many females living under one roof= disaster.

    Not only females. I think us INTJ just can't stand ignorance or stupid. And we have plenty of that in the workplace, and in our own homes.....in our entire world. It just drains us, or annoys us to death. better to keep away I guess.


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